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calling all beings y'all

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yeah welcome back to calling all beings

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baby i'm your host dj here with my

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amazing co-host nathan y'all about to

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know him because he's gonna be on that

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ufo podcast with andy everybody's about

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to know

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thank you so much it's such a i'm so

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happy that you're going to be going on

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there nathan thanks man all right

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and and you know what's going to happen

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it's about to get real up in here right

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um that's what i heard yeah because we

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having the man himself

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what we're talking about man this man

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okay

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this man you know what you notice i'm

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wearing black tonight very professional

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yeah because this man operates in the

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you know what i'm saying this man here

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for an appetizer in the air force he was

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a combat controller the most difficult

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school physically and mentally in the

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air force bar none sorry pjs i hope

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you're not mad at me and and then after

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that he was an afosi special agent so

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party people

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put your hands together

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for new mexico's own

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mr rick

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yes

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rick dodie

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yes jimmy church okay you had him first

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but we got him now baby look at this i

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got some air i could i could have i

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could have some dark hair i you know i

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may not have the cool guitars on the

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wall but what i do have is

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uh

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hey rick so so anyway rick

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how you doing it's so nice to have you

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great to have you on rick

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great introduction thanks

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see we're bringing it real we're not

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messing around rick we're not messing

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around uh but no we love to have fun we

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like to have our um

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and you'll see my voice will calm down

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i'll sound like a normal person

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but

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our ufo talk which we absolutely love

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and respect with a touch of humor

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because that's authentic and as soon as

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you're not authentic then uh people like

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you can sniff out that somebody's a fake

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and uh listeners also can sniff that out

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that aren't as astute as yourself and uh

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that's not us so with that um it's it's

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a pleasure to have you

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rick first question and we're gonna pass

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it back and forth between my brilliant

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co-host and i

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so you were a combat controller before

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no no no no i was

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i was a combat controller before i went

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into osi that's i was in a regular air

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force first

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yeah and uh then i got out went to

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college

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and then i joined osi

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okay

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that's how it happened

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but that's like is that not the hardest

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the hardest school the air force has was

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combat control

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well

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yeah it is uh i believe it was uh back

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then and but i came in uh back in 1968

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69

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what

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are you doing i'm 71 years old believe

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it or not yes i am incredible

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he looks like he's i keep in shape

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yeah but but back in those days uh

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combat controllers

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uh we were we were called conte back

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controllers but we were uh

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assigned to ford air controller units

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um

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and tactical control flight units

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and a lot of our training was army

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training

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this is 6869 time frame

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so the air force didn't have the program

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they have now and special tactics

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uh back in those days

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back in those days when you go through

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went to what the basic training and you

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were selected

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for a special operations uh assignment

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you went to a personal

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assessment course at lachlan

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and they cons it consisted of pj

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combat controllers and tactical

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intelligence

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pipeline students

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and so out of my flight there were 54 of

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us

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uh and you go through

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everyone went through the same

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introductory training you had to go

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through swim a swim uh uh course

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the the uh altitude chamber

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um

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you carried the rope and the log every

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morning you did exercises and that at

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the um

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fifth week mark is a six week course is

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i wanted to be a combat controller

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because one of my brothers

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my brother was in the army but one of

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his best friends was a combat controller

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and so i wanted to be one of them

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everybody else wanted to be pjs

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and so they picked you

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and you went into one or the other the

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tactical intelligence specialists were

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all people with

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real funny last names and already spoke

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intelligent oh you spoke

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you knew where they were going got it

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chinese russian and and so forth and so

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uh that's how you picked and then from

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there you went to the pipeline school

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uh you went through uh jump school and

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uh and all the different uh courses in

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it it took about uh 60

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64 66 weeks

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of training

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yeah i knew it was over a year and

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you're on flight status at that point

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you're on right you're on flying status

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so you're making i mean i have no doubt

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rick if you would have continued in that

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career field you would have ended up in

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i was assigned to a unit in um

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just before i got out i got out in

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germany uh to uh

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in bad tolts

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uh to the

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612th tax control flight

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and that was a predecessor for

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was called project rainbow we had pjs we

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had tie caps technical air control party

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uh and we had uh uh

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the weather people the combat weather

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people

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which was something new uh

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and um we kind of got along i mean there

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were a few fights here and there you

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know with the pjs because they were all

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it was always our competition i knew it

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yeah yeah yeah yeah always our

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competition yeah we were the scarlet

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brays and they were the moon room praise

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and people would get us mixed up call us

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pjs or call them

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ccds

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people are angry

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now let me ask you let me ask a dumb

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question as a non-military person what

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what is a pj what i don't know what's

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the difference pj is a pair of rescue

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yeah their job was combat rescue search

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and rescue uh they would go out and and

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search uh for down pilots

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uh and and search and rescue on the

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ground

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uh they were real famous in vietnam

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did some remarkable things

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a lot of them uh i think there was two

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or three medal of honor winners among

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pjs

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in fact i have one

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living uh

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not too far from me who uh

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was uh one of the

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uh pjs who went in and rescued

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uh

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laos i don't know if you ever heard of

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lima site85 you i'm sure you know i i

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don't know if i've heard of that site

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but i knew there was things going on in

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laos that weren't supposed to be going

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on in laos yeah he was a pg out of uh

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play cool but he he went in and picked

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up but

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just just google lima site85 and you

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you'll you'll probably read a story okay

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that's what pjs did in combat

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controllers we were different although

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there were a lot of uh

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the same training we went through but

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combat controllers our model was first

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there

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we would be the terminal controllers on

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the ground

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uh in a combat area we were first there

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we would jump in and we would call in

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all the other aircrafts

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uh we would we would set them up in air

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air sectors and we would bring them in

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troop drops cargo drops

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uh whatever we would set up what we call

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a box

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uh i'm sure dj knows all about this

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box where you you come in on a certain

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heading you drop your load and then you

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take off and and and then you would hold

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you in a particular pattern so we were

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we were a form of a combat uh

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uh

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traffic controller

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yep but but we had other missions we

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drove fire support missions where we

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would go in

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and we didn't have lasers back then now

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they have lasers they'd lose a target

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and the plane would come in and hit the

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target we had grid set patterns where

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we'd give them a magrid uh they would

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have the same map that we would have

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hopefully

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right yeah

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they would they would

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yeah exactly right yeah and so and

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that's what a a combat uh controller did

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and then tactical intelligence

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they're i think they're called um

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special reconnaissance now

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uh but they would go into areas behind

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the line so to speak

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and because they were all linguists

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and um

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and and and operate behind the line and

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then they had combat weather they would

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jump in with us

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uh and and they would be the weather

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people on the ground

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those are my favorite people and i used

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to go on trips rick uh like on the

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talons and we'd carry a linguist an

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intel linguist type person i always want

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to hang out eat dinner with them they're

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like so interesting they're so not air

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crew but they're the most fascinating

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people

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but um anyway all right we got to get

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into some ufos or people going to start

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throwing tomatoes

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at their screen right now i want to hear

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rip talk about crosstalk

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so i could go on about this other stuff

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all night this is fascinating oh i we

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haven't we haven't even scratched

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surface i told rick both and nathan his

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career was so much i i thought i had an

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exciting career flying talons his was

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much more exciting than mine but anyway

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go ahead nathan go ahead yeah well uh so

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yeah as a segue i mean how did you

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transition from combat control to air

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force osi

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how did they come to you did you seek

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that out how did that occur

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well my father uh i came from military

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family

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my father was a colonel uh an air force

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uh he was a pilot during korea he got

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shot down over korea

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uh he was rescued behind enemy lines by

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the greek army so he loves the greeks

283
00:11:19,430 --> 00:11:16,560
you can could never say anything bad

284
00:11:21,350 --> 00:11:19,440
about the greeks and then um

285
00:11:23,509 --> 00:11:21,360
he never flew again after that i mean it

286
00:11:26,150 --> 00:11:23,519
wasn't necessarily because he was

287
00:11:29,910 --> 00:11:26,160
injured but he just decided to branch

288
00:11:31,990 --> 00:11:29,920
off so he became a intelligence officer

289
00:11:34,470 --> 00:11:32,000
my father was originally

290
00:11:36,790 --> 00:11:34,480
his family was from massachusetts

291
00:11:37,750 --> 00:11:36,800
that my father went to amherst college

292
00:11:40,230 --> 00:11:37,760
okay

293
00:11:42,389 --> 00:11:40,240
and before he went in the military he

294
00:11:43,990 --> 00:11:42,399
was interested in languages so he

295
00:11:45,910 --> 00:11:44,000
he studied russian

296
00:11:47,990 --> 00:11:45,920
i am hearst that back in those days was

297
00:11:49,430 --> 00:11:48,000
a pretty pretty big language school area

298
00:11:50,550 --> 00:11:49,440
i mean if you wanted to learn in

299
00:11:53,430 --> 00:11:50,560
language or

300
00:11:55,750 --> 00:11:53,440
so he's he he majored in russian studies

301
00:11:57,829 --> 00:11:55,760
and this is in the 40s when right after

302
00:12:00,310 --> 00:11:57,839
the world war ii

303
00:12:03,030 --> 00:12:00,320
and um so i was a military brat so to

304
00:12:05,350 --> 00:12:03,040
speak my dad went into intelligence

305
00:12:06,310 --> 00:12:05,360
uh he was intelligence his entire career

306
00:12:09,430 --> 00:12:06,320
other than

307
00:12:10,629 --> 00:12:09,440
a few years he he was in as a pilot

308
00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:10,639
and um

309
00:12:15,430 --> 00:12:13,760
he wasn't osi but he was in uh

310
00:12:17,829 --> 00:12:15,440
in uh

311
00:12:21,030 --> 00:12:17,839
offensive intelligence collectors

312
00:12:23,190 --> 00:12:21,040
uh he spoke fluent russian fluent german

313
00:12:25,030 --> 00:12:23,200
uh spoke some check

314
00:12:26,870 --> 00:12:25,040
we spent a lot of time in germany in

315
00:12:29,509 --> 00:12:26,880
fact we were in germany when

316
00:12:31,590 --> 00:12:29,519
uh kennedy was assassinated oh well he

317
00:12:33,269 --> 00:12:31,600
was we were assigned a v span

318
00:12:35,990 --> 00:12:33,279
and um

319
00:12:38,629 --> 00:12:36,000
so when i uh i got out of the regular

320
00:12:40,230 --> 00:12:38,639
air force i went to college i wanted to

321
00:12:42,550 --> 00:12:40,240
be a teacher

322
00:12:44,230 --> 00:12:42,560
and so i majored in education but then i

323
00:12:47,030 --> 00:12:44,240
also got interested in

324
00:12:49,269 --> 00:12:47,040
political science um a somewhat of a

325
00:12:52,470 --> 00:12:49,279
good debater so i okay i actually

326
00:12:54,230 --> 00:12:52,480
switched majors to political science i

327
00:12:56,470 --> 00:12:54,240
got a degree a degree in political

328
00:12:58,949 --> 00:12:56,480
science with a minor in education and i

329
00:13:01,590 --> 00:12:58,959
tried to teach but then i realized

330
00:13:03,509 --> 00:13:01,600
i didn't have the patience

331
00:13:04,790 --> 00:13:03,519
uh to teach

332
00:13:08,310 --> 00:13:04,800
it's hard

333
00:13:10,710 --> 00:13:08,320
i did i did student teaching in a in an

334
00:13:12,470 --> 00:13:10,720
inner city school in tacoma washington i

335
00:13:15,190 --> 00:13:12,480
went to college at pacific lutheran

336
00:13:16,150 --> 00:13:15,200
university which is in tacoma okay and

337
00:13:20,150 --> 00:13:16,160
um

338
00:13:22,949 --> 00:13:20,160
got a call from a guy well actually a

339
00:13:24,949 --> 00:13:22,959
professor of mine who was a very very

340
00:13:26,710 --> 00:13:24,959
very liberal professor

341
00:13:28,790 --> 00:13:26,720
very liberal

342
00:13:30,230 --> 00:13:28,800
but he gave me a name of a person to

343
00:13:34,550 --> 00:13:30,240
contact

344
00:13:37,910 --> 00:13:34,560
about a job okay and i did and um

345
00:13:40,470 --> 00:13:37,920
the roundabout way i i decided to go

346
00:13:42,550 --> 00:13:40,480
into osi air force officer well it was

347
00:13:43,509 --> 00:13:42,560
an intelligence career field

348
00:13:45,910 --> 00:13:43,519
um

349
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:45,920
with with initially with dia defense

350
00:13:50,949 --> 00:13:47,519
intelligence agency

351
00:13:53,910 --> 00:13:50,959
and then i went to the osi academy and

352
00:13:56,629 --> 00:13:53,920
the dia school cia

353
00:13:59,269 --> 00:13:56,639
and that's how i ended up in osa

354
00:14:02,790 --> 00:13:59,279
that was awesome man i told people how

355
00:14:04,790 --> 00:14:02,800
everybody in the air force fears osi

356
00:14:06,949 --> 00:14:04,800
he knows that he's nodding his head all

357
00:14:09,110 --> 00:14:06,959
right nathan get the ufos before

358
00:14:10,790 --> 00:14:09,120
somebody i'm gonna get shot up man i got

359
00:14:12,230 --> 00:14:10,800
it i gotta get fragged right in front of

360
00:14:14,389 --> 00:14:12,240
rick dodie let's go we can't have we

361
00:14:16,230 --> 00:14:14,399
can't have that so yeah so this week uh

362
00:14:19,030 --> 00:14:16,240
a shout out to one of our our guests in

363
00:14:20,949 --> 00:14:19,040
the audience uh uh james ian doley uh

364
00:14:23,590 --> 00:14:20,959
this was kind of his brainchild to spend

365
00:14:25,590 --> 00:14:23,600
a week in the ufo community the content

366
00:14:28,069 --> 00:14:25,600
creator community and talk a little bit

367
00:14:30,310 --> 00:14:28,079
about crash retrieval and so we've got a

368
00:14:32,230 --> 00:14:30,320
lot of shows happening across the the

369
00:14:33,829 --> 00:14:32,240
group of folks that put out content

370
00:14:36,230 --> 00:14:33,839
looking at this topic

371
00:14:38,550 --> 00:14:36,240
and you know so excited to have you on

372
00:14:39,509 --> 00:14:38,560
to kind of get your perspective not only

373
00:14:41,509 --> 00:14:39,519
on

374
00:14:43,990 --> 00:14:41,519
you know kind of what you know

375
00:14:45,509 --> 00:14:44,000
within that space but also we want to

376
00:14:48,310 --> 00:14:45,519
talk a little bit about what's happening

377
00:14:51,110 --> 00:14:48,320
now too uh but but before we get to now

378
00:14:53,509 --> 00:14:51,120
i think i want to start with the past

379
00:14:55,350 --> 00:14:53,519
in your knowledge as far as you you know

380
00:14:57,509 --> 00:14:55,360
and you know as you're probably familiar

381
00:14:59,829 --> 00:14:57,519
jacques volley recently published uh his

382
00:15:02,710 --> 00:14:59,839
book trinity and uh

383
00:15:05,030 --> 00:15:02,720
co-written by paula harris

384
00:15:06,550 --> 00:15:05,040
was was trinity or roswell really the

385
00:15:11,110 --> 00:15:06,560
first sort of

386
00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:11,120
craft crash that that you are aware of

387
00:15:15,189 --> 00:15:13,440
well when i was at kirtland air force

388
00:15:17,350 --> 00:15:15,199
base uh

389
00:15:19,030 --> 00:15:17,360
i had the um

390
00:15:21,030 --> 00:15:19,040
opportunity

391
00:15:22,310 --> 00:15:21,040
to be briefed into a special access

392
00:15:24,310 --> 00:15:22,320
program

393
00:15:27,269 --> 00:15:24,320
a project aquarius

394
00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:27,279
and that involved the historical

395
00:15:30,069 --> 00:15:28,240
uh

396
00:15:31,430 --> 00:15:30,079
connection between the united states

397
00:15:34,470 --> 00:15:31,440
government

398
00:15:37,189 --> 00:15:34,480
and uh ets uh

399
00:15:39,030 --> 00:15:37,199
uaps and ufos we didn't call them uaps

400
00:15:42,550 --> 00:15:39,040
back then with all ufos

401
00:15:43,910 --> 00:15:42,560
or uh identified crafts i mean we knew

402
00:15:45,269 --> 00:15:43,920
what they were so we call them

403
00:15:47,350 --> 00:15:45,279
identified

404
00:15:48,470 --> 00:15:47,360
aerial uh crafts

405
00:15:50,150 --> 00:15:48,480
and

406
00:15:52,389 --> 00:15:50,160
that the briefing that i received in

407
00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:52,399
1979

408
00:15:56,470 --> 00:15:54,480
uh encompassed

409
00:15:58,550 --> 00:15:56,480
crash retrieval

410
00:15:59,749 --> 00:15:58,560
when we united states government

411
00:16:02,629 --> 00:15:59,759
government

412
00:16:05,269 --> 00:16:02,639
first got into the program

413
00:16:06,790 --> 00:16:05,279
and uh the first uh

414
00:16:09,189 --> 00:16:06,800
part of the briefing

415
00:16:11,430 --> 00:16:09,199
uh was roswell

416
00:16:13,829 --> 00:16:11,440
the roswell crash although

417
00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:13,839
actually the craft crashed and corona

418
00:16:18,470 --> 00:16:17,519
new mexico which is north of roswell

419
00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:18,480
and

420
00:16:22,310 --> 00:16:20,240
what we were told

421
00:16:24,870 --> 00:16:22,320
we saw pictures of what we saw a lone

422
00:16:28,150 --> 00:16:24,880
army film a recovery of

423
00:16:30,470 --> 00:16:28,160
is that during the summer of 1947

424
00:16:31,990 --> 00:16:30,480
there were two et crafts flying over new

425
00:16:33,829 --> 00:16:32,000
mexico

426
00:16:35,110 --> 00:16:33,839
and um

427
00:16:37,670 --> 00:16:35,120
these crafts

428
00:16:39,829 --> 00:16:37,680
during an electric storm in new mexico

429
00:16:42,550 --> 00:16:39,839
now dj you've been in new mexico you

430
00:16:43,749 --> 00:16:42,560
know how vicious electrical storms can

431
00:16:47,590 --> 00:16:43,759
be

432
00:16:49,430 --> 00:16:47,600
and what we found out what we not me but

433
00:16:51,189 --> 00:16:49,440
our government found out later was

434
00:16:52,949 --> 00:16:51,199
apparently these crafts had never

435
00:16:54,550 --> 00:16:52,959
encountered lightning

436
00:16:57,189 --> 00:16:54,560
and somehow

437
00:16:58,470 --> 00:16:57,199
these during the storm they were struck

438
00:17:00,949 --> 00:16:58,480
by lightning

439
00:17:03,509 --> 00:17:00,959
they collided the two each crafts one

440
00:17:05,110 --> 00:17:03,519
landed near corona new mexico and one

441
00:17:07,429 --> 00:17:05,120
landed west

442
00:17:08,549 --> 00:17:07,439
of socorro new mexico out near horse

443
00:17:10,630 --> 00:17:08,559
mesa

444
00:17:11,990 --> 00:17:10,640
now the corona crash had actually two

445
00:17:13,750 --> 00:17:12,000
sites

446
00:17:16,069 --> 00:17:13,760
one the debris field which was the

447
00:17:18,630 --> 00:17:16,079
antenna portion of the craft

448
00:17:20,390 --> 00:17:18,640
the second crash the second site was

449
00:17:21,909 --> 00:17:20,400
actually the craft

450
00:17:23,590 --> 00:17:21,919
there were actually pictures posted on

451
00:17:25,350 --> 00:17:23,600
the internet some years ago about this

452
00:17:28,069 --> 00:17:25,360
about regarding this craft an

453
00:17:32,870 --> 00:17:28,079
archeological team first found it

454
00:17:35,350 --> 00:17:32,880
found um some alien bodies uh dead dead

455
00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:35,360
bodies in one live alien one of a live

456
00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:36,960
e.t

457
00:17:40,070 --> 00:17:38,240
um

458
00:17:41,750 --> 00:17:40,080
brazil uh

459
00:17:44,470 --> 00:17:41,760
his ranch

460
00:17:46,789 --> 00:17:44,480
was the nation of the debris field the

461
00:17:48,789 --> 00:17:46,799
antenna portion of the craft

462
00:17:50,230 --> 00:17:48,799
which is miles away from the actual

463
00:17:51,669 --> 00:17:50,240
craft

464
00:17:54,310 --> 00:17:51,679
and that was all recovered in the summer

465
00:17:57,029 --> 00:17:54,320
of 1947 by the united states

466
00:17:58,710 --> 00:17:57,039
uh army out of roswell

467
00:18:01,830 --> 00:17:58,720
the second craft

468
00:18:03,990 --> 00:18:01,840
crashed way in a very very remote area

469
00:18:05,750 --> 00:18:04,000
of catcher and county in western new

470
00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:05,760
mexico up in the mountain

471
00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:09,120
that craft site wasn't found until 1949

472
00:18:13,669 --> 00:18:11,600
by a rancher he was moving his cattle

473
00:18:16,310 --> 00:18:13,679
from a lower grazing area up to a higher

474
00:18:19,830 --> 00:18:16,320
when he found his craft

475
00:18:21,830 --> 00:18:19,840
well the et's inside the craft

476
00:18:24,070 --> 00:18:21,840
never got out so they were all decayed

477
00:18:25,750 --> 00:18:24,080
inside the craft when he found he didn't

478
00:18:27,590 --> 00:18:25,760
know what it was

479
00:18:29,909 --> 00:18:27,600
immediately notified

480
00:18:32,950 --> 00:18:29,919
the catchment county sheriff now you

481
00:18:34,310 --> 00:18:32,960
understand that this is remote

482
00:18:37,830 --> 00:18:34,320
in new mexico

483
00:18:40,710 --> 00:18:37,840
phones were very very uh remote

484
00:18:42,950 --> 00:18:40,720
distance from locations it took him two

485
00:18:44,470 --> 00:18:42,960
days to get to a phone to call the

486
00:18:47,029 --> 00:18:44,480
county sheriff

487
00:18:49,510 --> 00:18:47,039
took the sheriff 11 days to get up to

488
00:18:51,430 --> 00:18:49,520
the crash site wow and when he got up to

489
00:18:52,950 --> 00:18:51,440
the crash site he realized

490
00:18:54,390 --> 00:18:52,960
well this isn't

491
00:18:56,870 --> 00:18:54,400
this isn't something i don't i know what

492
00:18:58,789 --> 00:18:56,880
to do with so then he notified them the

493
00:19:00,230 --> 00:18:58,799
state police the state police new mexico

494
00:19:02,870 --> 00:19:00,240
state police they didn't know what to do

495
00:19:04,470 --> 00:19:02,880
so anyways they notified at that time

496
00:19:07,350 --> 00:19:04,480
the air force the kirtland air force

497
00:19:10,710 --> 00:19:07,360
base and they responded recovered it

498
00:19:12,549 --> 00:19:10,720
and took the craft uh to uh kirlin and

499
00:19:13,990 --> 00:19:12,559
then on to los alamos

500
00:19:15,590 --> 00:19:14,000
los alamos

501
00:19:19,110 --> 00:19:15,600
that's really interesting

502
00:19:21,190 --> 00:19:19,120
the live et went to los alamos now

503
00:19:22,710 --> 00:19:21,200
contrary to a lot of uh what other

504
00:19:25,110 --> 00:19:22,720
people said

505
00:19:27,590 --> 00:19:25,120
um the first crash

506
00:19:28,710 --> 00:19:27,600
uh that that uh that was taken to

507
00:19:31,830 --> 00:19:28,720
roswell

508
00:19:33,190 --> 00:19:31,840
and part of the craft was flown uh to

509
00:19:36,070 --> 00:19:33,200
write patterson

510
00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:36,080
but the ets in the bodies were flown to

511
00:19:39,830 --> 00:19:38,880
los alamos they needed a

512
00:19:49,110 --> 00:19:39,840
a

513
00:19:50,310 --> 00:19:49,120
bodies

514
00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:50,320
they don't know what they didn't know

515
00:19:53,510 --> 00:19:51,600
what they were i mean they didn't know

516
00:19:56,549 --> 00:19:53,520
if how they were going to decay they

517
00:19:57,909 --> 00:19:56,559
were biologically different than us

518
00:19:59,190 --> 00:19:57,919
and so they needed to store them

519
00:20:03,110 --> 00:19:59,200
someplace and that's why they went to

520
00:20:04,789 --> 00:20:03,120
los alamos the live e.t la lived from 47

521
00:20:06,470 --> 00:20:04,799
to 1952

522
00:20:09,190 --> 00:20:06,480
at los alamos

523
00:20:10,149 --> 00:20:09,200
if i were to ask you to put a percentage

524
00:20:12,470 --> 00:20:10,159
on your

525
00:20:14,870 --> 00:20:12,480
your level of confidence that this is

526
00:20:16,789 --> 00:20:14,880
the case as it actually unfolded what

527
00:20:18,870 --> 00:20:16,799
percentage would you give that

528
00:20:20,390 --> 00:20:18,880
100

529
00:20:22,870 --> 00:20:20,400
it wasn't just

530
00:20:24,710 --> 00:20:22,880
the briefing that i got because what

531
00:20:26,950 --> 00:20:24,720
number one let me go back a little bit i

532
00:20:28,950 --> 00:20:26,960
was never interested in the subject of

533
00:20:31,029 --> 00:20:28,960
ufos as a kid

534
00:20:33,350 --> 00:20:31,039
i was never interested my father never

535
00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:33,360
spoke about him

536
00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:35,760
my brother on the other hand john is

537
00:20:39,510 --> 00:20:37,200
older than me

538
00:20:41,029 --> 00:20:39,520
he was a uh he was fascinated in the

539
00:20:42,310 --> 00:20:41,039
subject we roomed together we always had

540
00:20:44,630 --> 00:20:42,320
a room together

541
00:20:46,950 --> 00:20:44,640
and uh he would go out and buy true

542
00:20:48,470 --> 00:20:46,960
magazines back that were published back

543
00:20:50,390 --> 00:20:48,480
in the 60s

544
00:20:53,110 --> 00:20:50,400
he also bought the the first book that

545
00:20:53,909 --> 00:20:53,120
george adamski had published

546
00:20:57,430 --> 00:20:53,919
and

547
00:21:00,630 --> 00:20:57,440
these things but i was always hung up

548
00:21:03,190 --> 00:21:00,640
with zane gray i loved westerns and so i

549
00:21:05,830 --> 00:21:03,200
was never interested in the subject

550
00:21:09,510 --> 00:21:05,840
uh nowhere in osis

551
00:21:12,230 --> 00:21:09,520
academy the dia intelligence operations

552
00:21:15,909 --> 00:21:12,240
course or the cia course

553
00:21:18,789 --> 00:21:15,919
was the subject of ufos or ets mentioned

554
00:21:20,149 --> 00:21:18,799
none never not even in any way

555
00:21:22,789 --> 00:21:20,159
whatsoever

556
00:21:24,390 --> 00:21:22,799
so when i got to kirtland and i was

557
00:21:27,350 --> 00:21:24,400
involved in an investigation that

558
00:21:30,390 --> 00:21:27,360
include that involved a strange object

559
00:21:32,549 --> 00:21:30,400
that landed in a remote training area

560
00:21:35,830 --> 00:21:32,559
um i didn't know what it was of course

561
00:21:38,070 --> 00:21:35,840
my uh initial uh thought was probably

562
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:38,080
was maybe something foreign maybe a

563
00:21:43,510 --> 00:21:41,440
soviet craft flew in from

564
00:21:45,270 --> 00:21:43,520
mexico or something to that effect

565
00:21:47,510 --> 00:21:45,280
when i sat in this briefing and they

566
00:21:48,230 --> 00:21:47,520
started telling telling us and there

567
00:21:50,310 --> 00:21:48,240
were

568
00:21:51,510 --> 00:21:50,320
other people in this briefing it was the

569
00:21:53,909 --> 00:21:51,520
briefing was done by an air force

570
00:21:56,870 --> 00:21:53,919
colonel when they started telling us and

571
00:21:58,950 --> 00:21:56,880
showing us pictures of recovery film

572
00:22:01,350 --> 00:21:58,960
that that is an older film you could you

573
00:22:03,350 --> 00:22:01,360
could tell it was old about ufos and

574
00:22:05,510 --> 00:22:03,360
about et's

575
00:22:07,270 --> 00:22:05,520
i just couldn't believe it i i i sat

576
00:22:08,549 --> 00:22:07,280
there and i thought this was some sort

577
00:22:10,789 --> 00:22:08,559
of a

578
00:22:12,470 --> 00:22:10,799
psychological operations and i thought

579
00:22:14,630 --> 00:22:12,480
they're going to try to psych us out on

580
00:22:16,710 --> 00:22:14,640
something and then we were to go out and

581
00:22:19,350 --> 00:22:16,720
run some exercise that's what i thought

582
00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:19,360
yeah but as we got into it

583
00:22:22,789 --> 00:22:20,720
and as we

584
00:22:25,510 --> 00:22:22,799
we got more in-depth

585
00:22:27,350 --> 00:22:25,520
into what we what we were seeing

586
00:22:28,470 --> 00:22:27,360
and the evidence that was presented to

587
00:22:31,350 --> 00:22:28,480
us

588
00:22:32,950 --> 00:22:31,360
i realized my god this is true

589
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:32,960
now this briefing occurred at the

590
00:22:38,630 --> 00:22:35,760
western uh west west kirtland air force

591
00:22:39,669 --> 00:22:38,640
base and the osi office was on the east

592
00:22:41,430 --> 00:22:39,679
side

593
00:22:43,830 --> 00:22:41,440
i was driving back

594
00:22:45,909 --> 00:22:43,840
and i had to pull off the road and i sat

595
00:22:49,510 --> 00:22:45,919
there for probably 15 to 20 minutes

596
00:22:51,990 --> 00:22:49,520
trying to reconcile what i had just seen

597
00:22:55,510 --> 00:22:52,000
information i just got yeah i still had

598
00:22:58,070 --> 00:22:55,520
some doubts in my mind like you know

599
00:23:00,430 --> 00:22:58,080
is this is there some other type of plan

600
00:23:02,870 --> 00:23:00,440
do they have is this some kind of a

601
00:23:04,950 --> 00:23:02,880
psychological operations

602
00:23:07,430 --> 00:23:04,960
but when i got back to the office i

603
00:23:09,190 --> 00:23:07,440
immediately got

604
00:23:10,710 --> 00:23:09,200
got my tickets punched for a special

605
00:23:14,950 --> 00:23:10,720
access program

606
00:23:17,669 --> 00:23:14,960
meaning we had our own uh uh uh

607
00:23:20,070 --> 00:23:17,679
security uh special access security

608
00:23:22,630 --> 00:23:20,080
terminal in the osi office meaning a

609
00:23:25,350 --> 00:23:22,640
teletype system we could get top secret

610
00:23:26,470 --> 00:23:25,360
info in got it and the operator was was

611
00:23:27,430 --> 00:23:26,480
a civilian

612
00:23:30,149 --> 00:23:27,440
and

613
00:23:31,990 --> 00:23:30,159
you know he would feed stuff to whoever

614
00:23:34,789 --> 00:23:32,000
had access to it

615
00:23:36,390 --> 00:23:34,799
and uh now let me talk about this real

616
00:23:38,549 --> 00:23:36,400
quick and dj will

617
00:23:40,630 --> 00:23:38,559
will understand this just because you

618
00:23:43,590 --> 00:23:40,640
have a high level security clearance a

619
00:23:45,510 --> 00:23:43,600
top secret doesn't mean you have access

620
00:23:47,350 --> 00:23:45,520
you have to have a need to know

621
00:23:49,990 --> 00:23:47,360
in order to have access to something

622
00:23:51,750 --> 00:23:50,000
okay so there were other osi agents in

623
00:23:53,350 --> 00:23:51,760
the office they didn't have the same

624
00:23:56,549 --> 00:23:53,360
need to know that i did

625
00:23:59,430 --> 00:23:56,559
so i got i started receiving all these

626
00:24:00,390 --> 00:23:59,440
teletypes top secret code word

627
00:24:03,110 --> 00:24:00,400
uh

628
00:24:05,909 --> 00:24:03,120
teletypes about sightings

629
00:24:07,990 --> 00:24:05,919
and landings all over the world

630
00:24:09,909 --> 00:24:08,000
and with all this

631
00:24:12,549 --> 00:24:09,919
totality of it

632
00:24:17,430 --> 00:24:12,559
put together i realized that what i the

633
00:24:19,029 --> 00:24:17,440
briefing i i received was 100 factual

634
00:24:20,789 --> 00:24:19,039
wow and and there's no frame of

635
00:24:22,149 --> 00:24:20,799
reference to consider

636
00:24:23,830 --> 00:24:22,159
people it's funny that everybody's

637
00:24:25,190 --> 00:24:23,840
calling and texting us when we're on air

638
00:24:28,549 --> 00:24:25,200
because it's happening to both me and

639
00:24:30,470 --> 00:24:28,559
rick but um it's it's me too

640
00:24:32,630 --> 00:24:30,480
i know i know there's no frame of

641
00:24:34,710 --> 00:24:32,640
reference to consume this information

642
00:24:36,630 --> 00:24:34,720
rick you know what i mean like you don't

643
00:24:38,470 --> 00:24:36,640
have a frame of reference to go oh yeah

644
00:24:40,710 --> 00:24:38,480
of course yeah there's they just landed

645
00:24:42,630 --> 00:24:40,720
down in runway eight i got it right

646
00:24:44,630 --> 00:24:42,640
so everything's new and rick how many

647
00:24:46,470 --> 00:24:44,640
folks were in that uh

648
00:24:48,149 --> 00:24:46,480
room with you in that initial briefing

649
00:24:50,070 --> 00:24:48,159
was it who were who were getting this

650
00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:50,080
for the first time with you

651
00:24:53,590 --> 00:24:51,360
uh

652
00:24:54,470 --> 00:24:53,600
all of them were intelligence officers

653
00:24:57,430 --> 00:24:54,480
uh

654
00:24:59,909 --> 00:24:57,440
it was myself and one other rsi agent

655
00:25:00,950 --> 00:24:59,919
and i i don't know exactly number i

656
00:25:02,789 --> 00:25:00,960
would say

657
00:25:03,909 --> 00:25:02,799
probably not more than 20.

658
00:25:05,510 --> 00:25:03,919
okay

659
00:25:07,350 --> 00:25:05,520
like this is where his resistance

660
00:25:09,750 --> 00:25:07,360
training is coming in he learned this at

661
00:25:10,710 --> 00:25:09,760
the ranch i'm just kidding all right so

662
00:25:12,789 --> 00:25:10,720
rick

663
00:25:15,269 --> 00:25:12,799
if you don't mind we have a we have a

664
00:25:17,669 --> 00:25:15,279
guy from australia that has called in to

665
00:25:19,669 --> 00:25:17,679
ask you a question about luis elizondo

666
00:25:21,830 --> 00:25:19,679
stephen greer so we're gonna like like

667
00:25:23,830 --> 00:25:21,840
the beings we're gonna project forward

668
00:25:26,549 --> 00:25:23,840
in time but then we're gonna return back

669
00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:26,559
to kirtland okay okay okay

670
00:25:33,510 --> 00:25:30,000
here we go grant dj how are you buddy

671
00:25:36,549 --> 00:25:33,520
this guy is such an amazing artist um he

672
00:25:38,549 --> 00:25:36,559
is able to digitally put people's faces

673
00:25:40,149 --> 00:25:38,559
on other people's faces it's like john

674
00:25:42,310 --> 00:25:40,159
travolta movie

675
00:25:44,230 --> 00:25:42,320
it's nuts so grant hello say hello to

676
00:25:45,830 --> 00:25:44,240
rick dodie and go ahead brother

677
00:25:48,070 --> 00:25:45,840
well firstly dj and nathan thanks for

678
00:25:49,830 --> 00:25:48,080
having me on guys i really enjoy uh you

679
00:25:51,750 --> 00:25:49,840
know the content you guys put out and

680
00:25:53,669 --> 00:25:51,760
rick it's uh it's a pleasure to to make

681
00:25:57,029 --> 00:25:53,679
your acquaintance so um so thank you for

682
00:25:59,269 --> 00:25:57,039
taking a question or two from me today

683
00:26:01,350 --> 00:25:59,279
you get a question that's all you get a

684
00:26:03,590 --> 00:26:01,360
question i'll limit it to one

685
00:26:05,510 --> 00:26:03,600
so i i i guess the question i had for

686
00:26:08,230 --> 00:26:05,520
you is you know um

687
00:26:09,590 --> 00:26:08,240
based on your background in obviously

688
00:26:11,590 --> 00:26:09,600
you know counterintelligence and the

689
00:26:12,870 --> 00:26:11,600
network that you've established over the

690
00:26:13,909 --> 00:26:12,880
years

691
00:26:15,430 --> 00:26:13,919
uh

692
00:26:16,870 --> 00:26:15,440
you i think you're uniquely positioned

693
00:26:20,549 --> 00:26:16,880
to probably answer this question or at

694
00:26:22,830 --> 00:26:20,559
least opine um so so dr steven greer has

695
00:26:24,710 --> 00:26:22,840
publicly asserted that lou

696
00:26:26,470 --> 00:26:24,720
elizondo uh

697
00:26:29,269 --> 00:26:26,480
is essentially a fear-mongering

698
00:26:31,909 --> 00:26:29,279
disinformation agent and louis louis

699
00:26:34,149 --> 00:26:31,919
lazonda has publicly insinuated that

700
00:26:37,350 --> 00:26:34,159
greer is uh

701
00:26:38,470 --> 00:26:37,360
has hoaxed c5 events for for personal

702
00:26:41,990 --> 00:26:38,480
gain so

703
00:26:44,470 --> 00:26:42,000
i'm interested to get your uh opinion on

704
00:26:46,230 --> 00:26:44,480
the greer elizondo dichotomy that that

705
00:26:49,990 --> 00:26:46,240
exists at the moment who

706
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:55,590
well my own opinion uh

707
00:27:03,110 --> 00:26:59,110
i know steven greer i know him

708
00:27:04,830 --> 00:27:03,120
quite well uh i've been acknowledged

709
00:27:08,070 --> 00:27:04,840
i've spoke with him many

710
00:27:12,390 --> 00:27:08,080
times i don't know

711
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,870
in person

712
00:27:19,990 --> 00:27:18,230
rick i'm really

713
00:27:22,310 --> 00:27:20,000
rick excuse me for one second i'm really

714
00:27:24,310 --> 00:27:22,320
sorry to interrupt you uh we're getting

715
00:27:26,389 --> 00:27:24,320
an interruption in your signal is it

716
00:27:29,029 --> 00:27:26,399
possible that you could disconnect and

717
00:27:30,310 --> 00:27:29,039
then and then come back in into the

718
00:27:32,149 --> 00:27:30,320
backstage

719
00:27:34,389 --> 00:27:32,159
uh go ahead and talk real quick let me

720
00:27:36,950 --> 00:27:34,399
see how it's working yeah i think i'm

721
00:27:38,710 --> 00:27:36,960
losing you yeah yeah if you drop and

722
00:27:40,789 --> 00:27:38,720
then use the same link you'll come right

723
00:27:43,830 --> 00:27:40,799
back and we'll put you back on yeah it

724
00:27:45,909 --> 00:27:43,840
seems to work so i apologize

725
00:27:47,990 --> 00:27:45,919
yes please and then just come right back

726
00:27:51,190 --> 00:27:48,000
because without you we have no show okay

727
00:27:56,630 --> 00:27:53,190
great question grant uh so

728
00:27:59,430 --> 00:27:56,640
the unidentified celebrity rev review

729
00:28:02,070 --> 00:27:59,440
grant is a huge fan of theirs and with

730
00:28:03,350 --> 00:28:02,080
good reason and he produces this amazing

731
00:28:05,110 --> 00:28:03,360
i don't know if it's cg i don't know

732
00:28:07,350 --> 00:28:05,120
what the hell it is i just know i can't

733
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:07,360
do it i love your content and thank you

734
00:28:12,149 --> 00:28:09,760
thank you for what you do anything that

735
00:28:14,710 --> 00:28:12,159
can add some smiles on folks dolls so if

736
00:28:16,630 --> 00:28:14,720
it uh if it adds a bit of levity to

737
00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:16,640
the topics that are serious then you

738
00:28:21,750 --> 00:28:19,440
know it's uh it's i'm happy to do it

739
00:28:23,830 --> 00:28:21,760
yeah we're all for it uh what time is it

740
00:28:26,310 --> 00:28:23,840
right now is it one time zone throughout

741
00:28:28,470 --> 00:28:26,320
the continent of australia uh so i'm in

742
00:28:30,630 --> 00:28:28,480
melbourne australia and it's uh it's

743
00:28:32,789 --> 00:28:30,640
about 11 30 in the morning so i'm just

744
00:28:35,510 --> 00:28:32,799
taking my my mid-morning coffee break

745
00:28:37,830 --> 00:28:35,520
from my uh my day-to-day to uh to have a

746
00:28:39,830 --> 00:28:37,840
chat with you guys i love it i'm so glad

747
00:28:41,830 --> 00:28:39,840
we didn't keep you awake or something

748
00:28:43,669 --> 00:28:41,840
hopefully uh rick is gonna come back

749
00:28:45,029 --> 00:28:43,679
otherwise more people are to throw

750
00:28:48,950 --> 00:28:45,039
tomatoes

751
00:28:50,149 --> 00:28:48,960
could help us cg

752
00:28:50,950 --> 00:28:50,159
turn into a

753
00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:50,960
yeah

754
00:28:55,590 --> 00:28:53,200
turn into a deep fake uh

755
00:28:56,630 --> 00:28:55,600
master class maybe i don't know

756
00:28:58,789 --> 00:28:56,640
i'd actually be interested in doing a

757
00:29:00,389 --> 00:28:58,799
whole show on sort of the deep fakes and

758
00:29:02,149 --> 00:29:00,399
your thoughts on you know kind of where

759
00:29:03,430 --> 00:29:02,159
we're going with uh

760
00:29:05,669 --> 00:29:03,440
sort of

761
00:29:09,269 --> 00:29:05,679
journalism information the information

762
00:29:12,549 --> 00:29:09,279
the public sphere you know how we can

763
00:29:14,389 --> 00:29:12,559
what will we be able to do to verify the

764
00:29:15,510 --> 00:29:14,399
sort of truthfulness of

765
00:29:17,750 --> 00:29:15,520
what we see

766
00:29:20,149 --> 00:29:17,760
well it's it's it's actually fascinating

767
00:29:23,029 --> 00:29:20,159
what people can do now and and what uh

768
00:29:24,950 --> 00:29:23,039
kind of got me into uh exploring the

769
00:29:27,350 --> 00:29:24,960
deep fake area just for a bit of fun

770
00:29:28,549 --> 00:29:27,360
really is um i can't remember his handle

771
00:29:31,430 --> 00:29:28,559
but there's a

772
00:29:33,430 --> 00:29:31,440
there's a guy on um on twitter who does

773
00:29:36,310 --> 00:29:33,440
these absolutely incredibly amazing

774
00:29:38,789 --> 00:29:36,320
defects of tom cruise oh yeah and man

775
00:29:40,710 --> 00:29:38,799
they're just and i think

776
00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:40,720
yeah and justin bieber has actually

777
00:29:43,909 --> 00:29:42,480
fooled recently where he actually

778
00:29:45,669 --> 00:29:43,919
commented on a

779
00:29:47,750 --> 00:29:45,679
on on one of the videos thinking that it

780
00:29:48,470 --> 00:29:47,760
was the real tom cruise so amazing uh

781
00:29:50,070 --> 00:29:48,480
it's

782
00:29:51,430 --> 00:29:50,080
and and he's got the voice down pat for

783
00:29:53,750 --> 00:29:51,440
it as well and everything for it but

784
00:29:56,310 --> 00:29:53,760
it's it's crazy what what can be done

785
00:29:57,350 --> 00:29:56,320
now with uh machine learning and yeah

786
00:30:02,310 --> 00:29:57,360
it's

787
00:30:04,310 --> 00:30:02,320
sure okay and when we left

788
00:30:06,230 --> 00:30:04,320
rick dodi was talking about i know

789
00:30:08,389 --> 00:30:06,240
stephen greer i don't

790
00:30:10,310 --> 00:30:08,399
know lou elizondo but

791
00:30:13,909 --> 00:30:10,320
dot dot dot

792
00:30:15,830 --> 00:30:13,919
okay i know of loose background i know

793
00:30:16,870 --> 00:30:15,840
where he worked in the pentagon what he

794
00:30:21,350 --> 00:30:16,880
did

795
00:30:23,830 --> 00:30:21,360
and where he worked

796
00:30:26,230 --> 00:30:23,840
uh but but that's not as far as i'm

797
00:30:27,510 --> 00:30:26,240
gonna go i don't i don't know

798
00:30:29,510 --> 00:30:27,520
uh

799
00:30:30,950 --> 00:30:29,520
the information that he's providing is

800
00:30:33,669 --> 00:30:30,960
accurate or not

801
00:30:35,190 --> 00:30:33,679
i i trust stephen and he's

802
00:30:37,510 --> 00:30:35,200
he's done

803
00:30:38,630 --> 00:30:37,520
years and years of research into this

804
00:30:41,669 --> 00:30:38,640
area

805
00:30:42,470 --> 00:30:41,679
and so i i trust uh i guess what stephen

806
00:30:43,990 --> 00:30:42,480
said

807
00:30:46,389 --> 00:30:44,000
i'm not going to take one side or the

808
00:30:48,470 --> 00:30:46,399
other at this time

809
00:30:50,870 --> 00:30:48,480
oh my goodness

810
00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:50,880
your career in reality television i'm

811
00:30:56,310 --> 00:30:53,360
just kidding um i i thank you very much

812
00:30:57,990 --> 00:30:56,320
for taking that question rick grant we

813
00:30:59,669 --> 00:30:58,000
will talk to you sir

814
00:31:02,149 --> 00:30:59,679
we'll talk to you sir because i think

815
00:31:03,669 --> 00:31:02,159
nathan has just built an episode of you

816
00:31:05,190 --> 00:31:03,679
and your work okay we're gonna do it

817
00:31:06,549 --> 00:31:05,200
yeah very good i appreciate it we'll

818
00:31:08,549 --> 00:31:06,559
have you we're gonna have you on i'm

819
00:31:10,310 --> 00:31:08,559
gonna stay right here i'll be happy to

820
00:31:11,990 --> 00:31:10,320
join you guys anytime thanks thanks and

821
00:31:12,870 --> 00:31:12,000
uh i hope the rest of the show goes well

822
00:31:15,430 --> 00:31:12,880
thank you

823
00:31:19,590 --> 00:31:17,350
so rick i guess like what's interesting

824
00:31:20,789 --> 00:31:19,600
me about that answer uh

825
00:31:23,509 --> 00:31:20,799
you know kind of what your thoughts on

826
00:31:25,190 --> 00:31:23,519
this so there seems to be like a

827
00:31:27,430 --> 00:31:25,200
over time

828
00:31:29,750 --> 00:31:27,440
a fragmentation of understanding right

829
00:31:30,789 --> 00:31:29,760
so what you just described in your

830
00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:30,799
initial

831
00:31:36,310 --> 00:31:33,760
experience of this was a very

832
00:31:37,750 --> 00:31:36,320
i think clear story you know that you

833
00:31:39,029 --> 00:31:37,760
were given a briefing

834
00:31:40,470 --> 00:31:39,039
there seems to be a great deal of

835
00:31:42,070 --> 00:31:40,480
knowledge that is understood about

836
00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:42,080
what's going on

837
00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:44,159
and then as we fast forward and time to

838
00:31:47,110 --> 00:31:45,600
where we are now

839
00:31:49,269 --> 00:31:47,120
we've got a lot of different competing

840
00:31:52,230 --> 00:31:49,279
narratives that are sort of filling the

841
00:31:55,110 --> 00:31:52,240
the airwaves here so is that a

842
00:31:57,110 --> 00:31:55,120
in your opinion is that a result of us

843
00:31:59,990 --> 00:31:57,120
learning more out more about this than

844
00:32:02,149 --> 00:32:00,000
we knew before or is this something else

845
00:32:05,029 --> 00:32:02,159
is it an intentional mudding of of the

846
00:32:06,950 --> 00:32:05,039
waters of what we really know

847
00:32:09,990 --> 00:32:06,960
well i think it's uh

848
00:32:12,710 --> 00:32:10,000
a number of number of reasons but

849
00:32:15,990 --> 00:32:12,720
one particular one is over the years

850
00:32:17,830 --> 00:32:16,000
people have taken this subject

851
00:32:19,509 --> 00:32:17,840
they've uh

852
00:32:21,750 --> 00:32:19,519
grasped it

853
00:32:24,950 --> 00:32:21,760
whether it's

854
00:32:25,990 --> 00:32:24,960
in a realm of believability

855
00:32:27,430 --> 00:32:26,000
or

856
00:32:29,110 --> 00:32:27,440
whether it's

857
00:32:31,350 --> 00:32:29,120
just for their own

858
00:32:33,110 --> 00:32:31,360
uh for their own sake

859
00:32:34,630 --> 00:32:33,120
and they've written books about it

860
00:32:37,110 --> 00:32:34,640
they've uh

861
00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:37,120
movies and so forth

862
00:32:42,070 --> 00:32:38,000
and

863
00:32:45,509 --> 00:32:42,080
community is there con there's

864
00:32:47,909 --> 00:32:45,519
conflicting uh sides to everything

865
00:32:50,310 --> 00:32:47,919
the ufo community

866
00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:50,320
as phil class said once and we know who

867
00:32:53,830 --> 00:32:51,840
phil class was

868
00:32:57,990 --> 00:32:53,840
he was a skeptic

869
00:33:00,310 --> 00:32:58,000
um he said you do more harm within the

870
00:33:02,789 --> 00:33:00,320
ufo community to yourselves than i could

871
00:33:05,669 --> 00:33:02,799
to ever do on the outside and that's

872
00:33:07,669 --> 00:33:05,679
true there's so many backstabbers within

873
00:33:09,269 --> 00:33:07,679
the ufo community because

874
00:33:10,470 --> 00:33:09,279
one person will write a book about

875
00:33:12,070 --> 00:33:10,480
something

876
00:33:13,269 --> 00:33:12,080
the other person will write a

877
00:33:16,230 --> 00:33:13,279
conflicting

878
00:33:19,269 --> 00:33:16,240
story about that same book that same uh

879
00:33:21,110 --> 00:33:19,279
the book and and then there's a rivalry

880
00:33:24,630 --> 00:33:21,120
between the people within the ufo

881
00:33:27,190 --> 00:33:24,640
community yeah and there's so much um

882
00:33:28,070 --> 00:33:27,200
you know i can i can honestly say that

883
00:33:30,310 --> 00:33:28,080
my

884
00:33:33,190 --> 00:33:30,320
uh 11 years or so being in the

885
00:33:35,509 --> 00:33:33,200
intelligence area and knowing what we

886
00:33:38,870 --> 00:33:35,519
were doing and knowing

887
00:33:41,110 --> 00:33:38,880
what i knew about the ufo phenomena

888
00:33:43,590 --> 00:33:41,120
i can say that probably

889
00:33:47,110 --> 00:33:43,600
easily 60 percent of everything that was

890
00:33:50,070 --> 00:33:47,120
published is absolutely bull

891
00:33:52,630 --> 00:33:50,080
there's no truth whatsoever about a lot

892
00:33:54,149 --> 00:33:52,640
of the information and

893
00:33:55,110 --> 00:33:54,159
and although i

894
00:33:58,470 --> 00:33:55,120
uh

895
00:34:03,029 --> 00:33:58,480
i like

896
00:34:06,710 --> 00:34:03,039
book trinity

897
00:34:10,470 --> 00:34:06,720
uh was a uh well-written book

898
00:34:12,389 --> 00:34:10,480
but the actual event in 1945 if you were

899
00:34:14,790 --> 00:34:12,399
to go and find

900
00:34:17,030 --> 00:34:14,800
the brother brother who is still alive

901
00:34:19,669 --> 00:34:17,040
and talk to him

902
00:34:20,710 --> 00:34:19,679
which some other people have done

903
00:34:22,550 --> 00:34:20,720
they're going to tell you a different

904
00:34:25,270 --> 00:34:22,560
story

905
00:34:28,550 --> 00:34:25,280
now the state police officer that they

906
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:28,560
quote in the book i spoke with years ago

907
00:34:33,190 --> 00:34:30,480
when he was still alive

908
00:34:35,829 --> 00:34:33,200
and he emphatically told me

909
00:34:38,869 --> 00:34:35,839
that what the the plane that was crack

910
00:34:40,869 --> 00:34:38,879
crashed was a us army

911
00:34:44,389 --> 00:34:40,879
plane

912
00:34:46,389 --> 00:34:44,399
it wasn't a a ufo it wasn't from any

913
00:34:47,589 --> 00:34:46,399
other planet it was an air force or an

914
00:34:50,069 --> 00:34:47,599
army plane

915
00:34:53,270 --> 00:34:50,079
army air force plane it was flying a

916
00:34:55,109 --> 00:34:53,280
mission it was it was testing a very new

917
00:34:57,109 --> 00:34:55,119
type of radar

918
00:34:59,589 --> 00:34:57,119
and so the equipment inside was

919
00:35:02,150 --> 00:34:59,599
classified for the army air force

920
00:35:04,950 --> 00:35:02,160
that's why the military treated it like

921
00:35:06,069 --> 00:35:04,960
it was like it was now

922
00:35:08,870 --> 00:35:06,079
i'm not gonna

923
00:35:10,150 --> 00:35:08,880
go public and say you know your book is

924
00:35:11,589 --> 00:35:10,160
blown i don't know what the other

925
00:35:13,349 --> 00:35:11,599
brother said and

926
00:35:15,430 --> 00:35:13,359
and maybe there's some truth about

927
00:35:18,870 --> 00:35:15,440
something else in there but

928
00:35:20,390 --> 00:35:18,880
uh i know i know the though uh the the

929
00:35:21,589 --> 00:35:20,400
state police officer

930
00:35:23,910 --> 00:35:21,599
um

931
00:35:25,910 --> 00:35:23,920
and that's what he told me so

932
00:35:27,270 --> 00:35:25,920
uh you can take it whatever way you want

933
00:35:28,230 --> 00:35:27,280
to

934
00:35:31,430 --> 00:35:28,240
you know

935
00:35:32,950 --> 00:35:31,440
rick um i'm going to ask you about other

936
00:35:34,470 --> 00:35:32,960
crashes that you think may or may not

937
00:35:36,630 --> 00:35:34,480
have happened and after that i really

938
00:35:38,150 --> 00:35:36,640
want to kind of get into

939
00:35:39,750 --> 00:35:38,160
you know we can get into a little bit of

940
00:35:41,750 --> 00:35:39,760
nuts and bolts about i'd like to get

941
00:35:44,230 --> 00:35:41,760
your thoughts on area 51 a little bit

942
00:35:45,990 --> 00:35:44,240
obviously i'd like to get your your

943
00:35:48,950 --> 00:35:46,000
thoughts what we'll get into is a little

944
00:35:50,870 --> 00:35:48,960
bit of the the construct of from an

945
00:35:53,109 --> 00:35:50,880
intelligence standpoint of how you would

946
00:35:55,030 --> 00:35:53,119
compartmentalize this information and

947
00:35:57,670 --> 00:35:55,040
although i know nothing uh legitimate

948
00:36:00,390 --> 00:35:57,680
about mj 12 it seems like the type of a

949
00:36:03,190 --> 00:36:00,400
construct i would make to keep people

950
00:36:05,349 --> 00:36:03,200
who have a need to know from knowing

951
00:36:07,510 --> 00:36:05,359
because the joint chiefs need to know

952
00:36:09,670 --> 00:36:07,520
uh the secretary of defense needs to

953
00:36:11,190 --> 00:36:09,680
know the president needs to know so how

954
00:36:12,870 --> 00:36:11,200
do i keep them from knowing well i

955
00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:12,880
create a program where even though they

956
00:36:17,190 --> 00:36:14,160
have a need to know they're not going to

957
00:36:19,349 --> 00:36:17,200
know but that's beside the point um

958
00:36:21,510 --> 00:36:19,359
how many crashes do you think we'll get

959
00:36:23,829 --> 00:36:21,520
into that and i really want to get your

960
00:36:26,310 --> 00:36:23,839
how you feel about different things

961
00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:26,320
interdimensional versus extraterrestrial

962
00:36:30,710 --> 00:36:28,320
all this kind of stuff but

963
00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:30,720
how many crashes do you think we've had

964
00:36:38,390 --> 00:36:35,440
do you suspect or know of which either

965
00:36:41,750 --> 00:36:38,400
well i know of the the the cronin horse

966
00:36:43,910 --> 00:36:41,760
mesa crash i know of the kingman crash

967
00:36:45,030 --> 00:36:43,920
uh that was in the briefing

968
00:36:48,069 --> 00:36:45,040
um

969
00:36:48,790 --> 00:36:48,079
there was one out

970
00:36:50,550 --> 00:36:48,800
in

971
00:36:52,950 --> 00:36:50,560
the middle of uh

972
00:36:54,630 --> 00:36:52,960
nevada it was near uh

973
00:36:55,990 --> 00:36:54,640
it was called the uh

974
00:36:57,750 --> 00:36:56,000
fallen

975
00:37:00,630 --> 00:36:57,760
uh the following crash it was near

976
00:37:02,390 --> 00:37:00,640
fallen naval air station or the bomber

977
00:37:03,750 --> 00:37:02,400
bombing range and this was in the late

978
00:37:05,750 --> 00:37:03,760
50s

979
00:37:07,510 --> 00:37:05,760
uh there was another one in nevada that

980
00:37:09,910 --> 00:37:07,520
was up

981
00:37:11,750 --> 00:37:09,920
near duck water

982
00:37:14,310 --> 00:37:11,760
and some of these haven't gotten much

983
00:37:16,470 --> 00:37:14,320
publicity i mean we i read about them in

984
00:37:18,390 --> 00:37:16,480
classified documents there have been

985
00:37:20,710 --> 00:37:18,400
some people talk about it i know stan

986
00:37:22,630 --> 00:37:20,720
friedman talk about the fallen case but

987
00:37:23,430 --> 00:37:22,640
he couldn't find anything in any kind of

988
00:37:26,950 --> 00:37:23,440
uh

989
00:37:29,430 --> 00:37:26,960
that

990
00:37:32,550 --> 00:37:29,440
uh and then there were there was another

991
00:37:36,390 --> 00:37:32,560
famous one in canada along

992
00:37:39,349 --> 00:37:36,400
a radar site in in the dew line um

993
00:37:42,630 --> 00:37:39,359
distance early warning line uh radar

994
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:42,640
site uh radar line uh that they were

995
00:37:46,630 --> 00:37:44,880
created in the 50s and 60s there was one

996
00:37:47,740 --> 00:37:46,640
there that pretty

997
00:37:48,950 --> 00:37:47,750
pretty uh

998
00:37:50,710 --> 00:37:48,960
[Music]

999
00:37:54,870 --> 00:37:50,720
pretty interesting case

1000
00:37:55,910 --> 00:37:54,880
a a um retired air force uh excuse me

1001
00:37:58,470 --> 00:37:55,920
retired

1002
00:38:00,150 --> 00:37:58,480
canadian forces air force uh canadian

1003
00:38:02,870 --> 00:38:00,160
forces

1004
00:38:04,550 --> 00:38:02,880
canadian air force canadian air force

1005
00:38:06,470 --> 00:38:04,560
yeah canadian air force

1006
00:38:08,310 --> 00:38:06,480
um captain

1007
00:38:10,870 --> 00:38:08,320
uh excuse me he was captain at the time

1008
00:38:13,270 --> 00:38:10,880
he was re he was retired

1009
00:38:15,109 --> 00:38:13,280
i believe lieutenant colonel anyways he

1010
00:38:18,230 --> 00:38:15,119
talked about this at a ufo convention

1011
00:38:20,230 --> 00:38:18,240
some years ago where one crashed i had

1012
00:38:21,670 --> 00:38:20,240
never seen anything in any kind of

1013
00:38:23,030 --> 00:38:21,680
classified

1014
00:38:25,349 --> 00:38:23,040
but after

1015
00:38:27,910 --> 00:38:25,359
i heard this briefing i spoke to

1016
00:38:29,910 --> 00:38:27,920
somebody who still worked within dia

1017
00:38:33,190 --> 00:38:29,920
and he confirmed to me that yes in fact

1018
00:38:35,109 --> 00:38:33,200
that happened in 1959 and it

1019
00:38:37,990 --> 00:38:35,119
i can't remember the name of the radar

1020
00:38:40,950 --> 00:38:38,000
site but it was along the dew line in in

1021
00:38:43,190 --> 00:38:40,960
northern uh alberta i believe or

1022
00:38:43,790 --> 00:38:43,200
saskatchewan

1023
00:38:45,190 --> 00:38:43,800
um

1024
00:38:47,510 --> 00:38:45,200
[Music]

1025
00:38:50,069 --> 00:38:47,520
those are the ones that i actually

1026
00:38:51,829 --> 00:38:50,079
would knew about during my time period

1027
00:38:52,950 --> 00:38:51,839
in in osi

1028
00:38:55,670 --> 00:38:52,960
um

1029
00:38:56,950 --> 00:38:55,680
since then i've learned about other ones

1030
00:38:58,310 --> 00:38:56,960
um

1031
00:39:02,390 --> 00:38:58,320
i worked

1032
00:39:04,069 --> 00:39:02,400
when i left osi in 1980 and 1994

1033
00:39:06,310 --> 00:39:04,079
i went to work for

1034
00:39:07,990 --> 00:39:06,320
dr put off in the institute for advanced

1035
00:39:09,990 --> 00:39:08,000
studies at austin

1036
00:39:12,790 --> 00:39:10,000
i'm sure you you'll read about that and

1037
00:39:17,750 --> 00:39:12,800
some and for that time period

1038
00:39:20,069 --> 00:39:17,760
uh we we did private uh research i did a

1039
00:39:22,230 --> 00:39:20,079
i was a field investigator for him

1040
00:39:24,950 --> 00:39:22,240
i had a darpa clearance

1041
00:39:26,870 --> 00:39:24,960
i went out to different locations

1042
00:39:29,589 --> 00:39:26,880
and one of the sites most fascinating

1043
00:39:32,950 --> 00:39:29,599
site i think the crash site that i've

1044
00:39:36,710 --> 00:39:35,430
before during my osi career i read about

1045
00:39:39,030 --> 00:39:36,720
crashes

1046
00:39:39,829 --> 00:39:39,040
but i haven't i only visited one at one

1047
00:39:42,310 --> 00:39:39,839
time

1048
00:39:44,790 --> 00:39:42,320
and that was when i was assigned to uh

1049
00:39:46,790 --> 00:39:44,800
area 51 but other than that i had not

1050
00:39:48,950 --> 00:39:46,800
actually visited the site well in

1051
00:39:52,069 --> 00:39:48,960
western south dakota

1052
00:39:53,430 --> 00:39:52,079
there was a uh a rancher near spearfish

1053
00:39:55,270 --> 00:39:53,440
south dakota

1054
00:39:57,670 --> 00:39:55,280
uh which was out western near the

1055
00:39:59,750 --> 00:39:57,680
wyoming border

1056
00:40:02,470 --> 00:39:59,760
he had found

1057
00:40:04,470 --> 00:40:02,480
some debris on his ranch

1058
00:40:06,230 --> 00:40:04,480
and so he um

1059
00:40:07,750 --> 00:40:06,240
he didn't know what it was

1060
00:40:09,910 --> 00:40:07,760
he didn't really care much about it

1061
00:40:11,829 --> 00:40:09,920
because it was in such a remote area

1062
00:40:14,390 --> 00:40:11,839
that he didn't bring it up that but some

1063
00:40:15,750 --> 00:40:14,400
years later two years later he told a

1064
00:40:18,150 --> 00:40:15,760
son

1065
00:40:19,750 --> 00:40:18,160
who was going to take over the ranch

1066
00:40:21,030 --> 00:40:19,760
and so a son went out there and looked

1067
00:40:21,670 --> 00:40:21,040
at this stuff

1068
00:40:23,349 --> 00:40:21,680
and it started

1069
00:40:25,829 --> 00:40:23,359
[Music]

1070
00:40:27,349 --> 00:40:25,839
working with it trying to drill into it

1071
00:40:29,589 --> 00:40:27,359
and he couldn't do that

1072
00:40:30,630 --> 00:40:29,599
and he thought my gosh this has to be

1073
00:40:33,030 --> 00:40:30,640
something

1074
00:40:34,470 --> 00:40:33,040
out of this world so what he thought it

1075
00:40:35,750 --> 00:40:34,480
was a soviet

1076
00:40:36,950 --> 00:40:35,760
or a russian

1077
00:40:38,390 --> 00:40:36,960
because it had been on the ground for a

1078
00:40:40,150 --> 00:40:38,400
long time

1079
00:40:42,710 --> 00:40:40,160
he thought well maybe it was a russian

1080
00:40:43,910 --> 00:40:42,720
or a soviet satellite that had crashed

1081
00:40:46,390 --> 00:40:43,920
and so

1082
00:40:48,069 --> 00:40:46,400
anyways it got back to us the institute

1083
00:40:50,630 --> 00:40:48,079
for advanced studies i went up there

1084
00:40:54,550 --> 00:40:50,640
with another scientist from the from the

1085
00:40:56,790 --> 00:40:54,560
institute and when i looked at it and

1086
00:40:59,990 --> 00:40:56,800
started analyzing it i realized this was

1087
00:41:02,550 --> 00:41:00,000
in fact e.t extraterrestrial nature

1088
00:41:04,309 --> 00:41:02,560
so i tried i called the closest air

1089
00:41:07,349 --> 00:41:04,319
force base was elsewhere ellsworth air

1090
00:41:10,150 --> 00:41:07,359
force base in rapid city or west east of

1091
00:41:13,109 --> 00:41:10,160
rapid city and i tried to convince them

1092
00:41:15,670 --> 00:41:13,119
to come out there i talked to the osi

1093
00:41:17,750 --> 00:41:15,680
uh agent it was a sunday so i talked to

1094
00:41:21,270 --> 00:41:17,760
the osage that was on call

1095
00:41:23,589 --> 00:41:21,280
he thought it was a coop call at first

1096
00:41:27,190 --> 00:41:23,599
like i was especially you know

1097
00:41:30,069 --> 00:41:27,200
i'm a retired person i'm i was osi agent

1098
00:41:32,309 --> 00:41:30,079
and i started talking to him about osi

1099
00:41:33,270 --> 00:41:32,319
information the only osi agent would

1100
00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:33,280
know

1101
00:41:36,790 --> 00:41:35,040
he goes wow i start believing you well

1102
00:41:39,349 --> 00:41:36,800
let me see what i can do

1103
00:41:41,990 --> 00:41:39,359
so the next afternoon

1104
00:41:43,349 --> 00:41:42,000
the air force came out and recovered it

1105
00:41:44,950 --> 00:41:43,359
and

1106
00:41:45,990 --> 00:41:44,960
what was what was hal put off doing at

1107
00:41:47,190 --> 00:41:46,000
this point though is he kind of like

1108
00:41:48,710 --> 00:41:47,200
rick why did you make this he was in the

1109
00:41:50,710 --> 00:41:48,720
bathroom

1110
00:41:53,190 --> 00:41:50,720
i mean come on rick dodie's on the phone

1111
00:41:55,829 --> 00:41:53,200
man recognized he gave it away well i

1112
00:41:58,550 --> 00:41:55,839
know i coordinated all this with him i i

1113
00:42:00,710 --> 00:41:58,560
talked to hal and i told hal and he said

1114
00:42:02,790 --> 00:42:00,720
i said there's no way i could

1115
00:42:05,430 --> 00:42:02,800
put this into a vehicle it was a big

1116
00:42:07,589 --> 00:42:05,440
object oh wow and transport it back it

1117
00:42:09,910 --> 00:42:07,599
wasn't it wasn't as small was there

1118
00:42:12,230 --> 00:42:09,920
corrosion was there any corrosion on it

1119
00:42:13,910 --> 00:42:12,240
no not a bit of corrosion it's amazing

1120
00:42:15,510 --> 00:42:13,920
not a bit of corrosion

1121
00:42:18,109 --> 00:42:15,520
uh

1122
00:42:23,109 --> 00:42:20,790
hieroglyphics although i i think they're

1123
00:42:25,430 --> 00:42:23,119
more there were more characters like

1124
00:42:26,950 --> 00:42:25,440
chinese characters that were written on

1125
00:42:29,190 --> 00:42:26,960
about other they were chinese because it

1126
00:42:31,270 --> 00:42:29,200
was analyzed later i took a lot of

1127
00:42:33,030 --> 00:42:31,280
pictures a lot of photographs myself and

1128
00:42:35,030 --> 00:42:33,040
this other scientist

1129
00:42:37,670 --> 00:42:35,040
we managed to take a little piece of

1130
00:42:39,109 --> 00:42:37,680
something that had broken off now that's

1131
00:42:40,550 --> 00:42:39,119
amazing because

1132
00:42:41,430 --> 00:42:40,560
you couldn't drill into this thing

1133
00:42:44,470 --> 00:42:41,440
because

1134
00:42:45,990 --> 00:42:44,480
the rancher's son tried he tried to cut

1135
00:42:48,150 --> 00:42:46,000
it with saws

1136
00:42:50,230 --> 00:42:48,160
rip saws he couldn't even make a dent

1137
00:42:53,109 --> 00:42:50,240
into it but we got a piece we took back

1138
00:42:54,069 --> 00:42:53,119
to the laboratory and we and we analyzed

1139
00:42:56,950 --> 00:42:54,079
it but

1140
00:43:00,470 --> 00:42:56,960
i think the uh you know there are some

1141
00:43:03,190 --> 00:43:00,480
uh laws federal laws under title 50

1142
00:43:04,870 --> 00:43:03,200
united states code and that that we

1143
00:43:06,630 --> 00:43:04,880
couldn't keep this

1144
00:43:09,190 --> 00:43:06,640
we would have had to notify the

1145
00:43:11,190 --> 00:43:09,200
government come on i did what i thought

1146
00:43:14,230 --> 00:43:11,200
why are we following i'm just kidding go

1147
00:43:15,670 --> 00:43:14,240
ahead that i did what i i you know i

1148
00:43:17,750 --> 00:43:15,680
know a lot of people criticize me i

1149
00:43:20,150 --> 00:43:17,760
talked to other people about this uh

1150
00:43:21,670 --> 00:43:20,160
years ago and they said you're oh my god

1151
00:43:23,190 --> 00:43:21,680
you should have put it in the back of

1152
00:43:24,870 --> 00:43:23,200
there's no way i could have lifted this

1153
00:43:27,030 --> 00:43:24,880
thing i mean no i wouldn't either i mean

1154
00:43:28,550 --> 00:43:27,040
you got to do it you know what's legal

1155
00:43:30,230 --> 00:43:28,560
because you could be held responsible

1156
00:43:31,910 --> 00:43:30,240
and that's not something that you want

1157
00:43:37,430 --> 00:43:31,920
to mess with exactly

1158
00:43:40,069 --> 00:43:37,440
um so i have to go to area 51 um rick

1159
00:43:42,550 --> 00:43:40,079
there's a lot of obviously you've heard

1160
00:43:44,710 --> 00:43:42,560
you know years worth of talk about this

1161
00:43:46,309 --> 00:43:44,720
um if there were

1162
00:43:49,109 --> 00:43:46,319
a craft

1163
00:43:51,430 --> 00:43:49,119
um is that a place that you think that

1164
00:43:53,670 --> 00:43:51,440
uh the government would keep a whole

1165
00:43:56,230 --> 00:43:53,680
craft or do you think it would have been

1166
00:43:58,390 --> 00:43:56,240
given over to a private contractor like

1167
00:44:00,390 --> 00:43:58,400
lockheed martin or bigelow what do you

1168
00:44:04,309 --> 00:44:00,400
think the government would do if it had

1169
00:44:06,309 --> 00:44:04,319
a whole craft would it be at an area 51

1170
00:44:08,630 --> 00:44:06,319
no it would be an area 51

1171
00:44:12,309 --> 00:44:08,640
it would be taken there at least during

1172
00:44:13,109 --> 00:44:12,319
my time period and even after that

1173
00:44:15,030 --> 00:44:13,119
uh

1174
00:44:17,109 --> 00:44:15,040
you know i worked at area 51 on two

1175
00:44:18,069 --> 00:44:17,119
occasions i was tdy there

1176
00:44:20,550 --> 00:44:18,079
um

1177
00:44:22,630 --> 00:44:20,560
covering for an agent that who had uh

1178
00:44:23,589 --> 00:44:22,640
got real sick and unfortunately passed

1179
00:44:26,390 --> 00:44:23,599
away

1180
00:44:28,390 --> 00:44:26,400
so i was tdy there on two occasions

1181
00:44:29,670 --> 00:44:28,400
i was briefed into a lot of programs not

1182
00:44:31,750 --> 00:44:29,680
everything i wasn't briefed into

1183
00:44:33,990 --> 00:44:31,760
everything uh but i was briefed into a

1184
00:44:36,710 --> 00:44:34,000
lot of different programs i knew what

1185
00:44:38,309 --> 00:44:36,720
was there i knew we needed to have uh

1186
00:44:40,870 --> 00:44:38,319
crafts that we were studying that we

1187
00:44:42,550 --> 00:44:40,880
obtained the exotic crafts that were

1188
00:44:43,990 --> 00:44:42,560
from uh

1189
00:44:46,870 --> 00:44:44,000
out of this world

1190
00:44:47,990 --> 00:44:46,880
um we had uh ets

1191
00:44:49,430 --> 00:44:48,000
uh

1192
00:44:50,790 --> 00:44:49,440
and so we

1193
00:44:51,990 --> 00:44:50,800
we

1194
00:44:54,790 --> 00:44:52,000
air force

1195
00:44:55,750 --> 00:44:54,800
laboratories there

1196
00:44:57,670 --> 00:44:55,760
um

1197
00:45:00,390 --> 00:44:57,680
san diego national laboratories had a

1198
00:45:04,309 --> 00:45:00,400
facility there los alamos had a facility

1199
00:45:05,670 --> 00:45:04,319
there skunk works had a facility there

1200
00:45:07,670 --> 00:45:05,680
now

1201
00:45:09,829 --> 00:45:07,680
when we talk about area 51 we're talking

1202
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:09,839
about one area groom lake which was back

1203
00:45:13,910 --> 00:45:10,720
then

1204
00:45:15,670 --> 00:45:13,920
death 3 air force test flight center

1205
00:45:19,510 --> 00:45:15,680
and that's official name for it as you

1206
00:45:21,589 --> 00:45:19,520
would know dj uh but we also had tonopah

1207
00:45:24,390 --> 00:45:21,599
tanapa air force base

1208
00:45:25,510 --> 00:45:24,400
which was even more secretive i think

1209
00:45:29,349 --> 00:45:25,520
at

1210
00:45:30,870 --> 00:45:29,359
for than than area 51 because very few

1211
00:45:34,069 --> 00:45:30,880
people knew

1212
00:45:35,829 --> 00:45:34,079
the operating locations on tunnel paw

1213
00:45:38,390 --> 00:45:35,839
now tuna paw

1214
00:45:42,150 --> 00:45:38,400
and area 51 or groom lake was all

1215
00:45:43,670 --> 00:45:42,160
contained in the nellis uh test training

1216
00:45:45,030 --> 00:45:43,680
range

1217
00:45:47,990 --> 00:45:45,040
and

1218
00:45:51,030 --> 00:45:48,000
within that range we they had

1219
00:45:53,349 --> 00:45:51,040
a a facility called wellington

1220
00:45:56,150 --> 00:45:53,359
wellington test center

1221
00:45:59,030 --> 00:45:56,160
jamestown test center they were very

1222
00:46:01,670 --> 00:45:59,040
highly classified locations because this

1223
00:46:04,230 --> 00:46:01,680
is such a large area that we're within

1224
00:46:06,230 --> 00:46:04,240
that test range they were doing some

1225
00:46:07,430 --> 00:46:06,240
extraordinary

1226
00:46:09,670 --> 00:46:07,440
testing

1227
00:46:11,190 --> 00:46:09,680
of exotic technology in these different

1228
00:46:12,790 --> 00:46:11,200
areas

1229
00:46:15,829 --> 00:46:12,800
such as

1230
00:46:17,430 --> 00:46:15,839
energy weapons time travel

1231
00:46:19,030 --> 00:46:17,440
um

1232
00:46:26,069 --> 00:46:19,040
inertia

1233
00:46:27,670 --> 00:46:26,079
and then

1234
00:46:30,069 --> 00:46:27,680
on top of all that

1235
00:46:31,829 --> 00:46:30,079
you had a nevada test site

1236
00:46:34,230 --> 00:46:31,839
or the which is now called the nevada

1237
00:46:35,910 --> 00:46:34,240
national security site where they

1238
00:46:38,069 --> 00:46:35,920
detonated nuclear weapons and tested

1239
00:46:40,870 --> 00:46:38,079
nuclear weapons back in the 50s 60s 70s

1240
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:40,880
and 80s in the early 90s

1241
00:46:44,390 --> 00:46:43,200
there were highly classified facilities

1242
00:46:47,670 --> 00:46:44,400
used by

1243
00:46:50,790 --> 00:46:47,680
lockheed by general dynamics by

1244
00:46:52,309 --> 00:46:50,800
tektronix by e-systems all these

1245
00:46:54,630 --> 00:46:52,319
different

1246
00:46:56,950 --> 00:46:54,640
companies contract companies

1247
00:47:00,470 --> 00:46:56,960
they had their facilities there so there

1248
00:47:02,150 --> 00:47:00,480
was a lot of testing of et technology

1249
00:47:03,910 --> 00:47:02,160
done there also

1250
00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:03,920
so if i and i'm going to turn it over to

1251
00:47:08,710 --> 00:47:06,480
nathan because he get he gets the next

1252
00:47:11,750 --> 00:47:08,720
we got to share rick i mean i can't just

1253
00:47:15,750 --> 00:47:13,510
the question i would ask you like like i

1254
00:47:17,670 --> 00:47:15,760
said before your level your percentage

1255
00:47:20,549 --> 00:47:17,680
of confidence that there was in fact

1256
00:47:35,190 --> 00:47:20,559
craft brought somewhere on that groom

1257
00:47:39,750 --> 00:47:37,670
let me say this

1258
00:47:41,190 --> 00:47:39,760
i knew where

1259
00:47:42,150 --> 00:47:41,200
there was a there's a there's a cup

1260
00:47:43,910 --> 00:47:42,160
there's

1261
00:47:46,710 --> 00:47:43,920
differences between

1262
00:47:48,790 --> 00:47:46,720
lazar's story about s4

1263
00:47:53,349 --> 00:47:48,800
and what's actually there

1264
00:47:57,270 --> 00:47:53,359
s4 was an underground facility under s2

1265
00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:57,280
s2 was a facility inside the mountain

1266
00:48:03,349 --> 00:48:00,240
underground at papua's lake i'd been

1267
00:48:04,549 --> 00:48:03,359
there i was at s2

1268
00:48:07,670 --> 00:48:04,559
there you go

1269
00:48:09,109 --> 00:48:07,680
i was never at s4 i was never under

1270
00:48:11,910 --> 00:48:09,119
there i didn't have a clearance to go

1271
00:48:13,349 --> 00:48:11,920
under there so i don't know what's under

1272
00:48:15,670 --> 00:48:13,359
the ground there

1273
00:48:18,390 --> 00:48:15,680
but i know s2 which was administrative

1274
00:48:20,549 --> 00:48:18,400
control center for s4

1275
00:48:22,309 --> 00:48:20,559
been there several times

1276
00:48:23,510 --> 00:48:22,319
uh you had to have a special security

1277
00:48:25,670 --> 00:48:23,520
clearance

1278
00:48:28,230 --> 00:48:25,680
exchange badge system

1279
00:48:30,309 --> 00:48:28,240
uh to get to get in in there and then

1280
00:48:31,750 --> 00:48:30,319
underground you had to even have a

1281
00:48:34,390 --> 00:48:31,760
different type of

1282
00:48:36,309 --> 00:48:34,400
entry control system to get there well

1283
00:48:39,910 --> 00:48:36,319
i can tell you that

1284
00:48:41,589 --> 00:48:39,920
i never saw anything at s4 so i don't

1285
00:48:42,549 --> 00:48:41,599
know what's down there

1286
00:48:46,710 --> 00:48:42,559
but

1287
00:48:52,470 --> 00:48:49,349
well angelo seijin would take a jeep

1288
00:48:55,030 --> 00:48:52,480
we all had at cj7 jeeps back in those

1289
00:48:57,990 --> 00:48:55,040
days assigned to us we could go anywhere

1290
00:48:59,589 --> 00:48:58,000
out there uh we had badges to get in

1291
00:49:01,030 --> 00:48:59,599
almost any place

1292
00:49:03,349 --> 00:49:01,040
we would go out

1293
00:49:05,510 --> 00:49:03,359
and on security patrol so to speak is

1294
00:49:08,390 --> 00:49:05,520
what we would call it checking your

1295
00:49:10,230 --> 00:49:08,400
different areas i mean we they had air

1296
00:49:12,549 --> 00:49:10,240
force security police there

1297
00:49:13,829 --> 00:49:12,559
they were debt three out of nellis

1298
00:49:16,069 --> 00:49:13,839
and they had

1299
00:49:18,790 --> 00:49:16,079
uh and they were had high-level security

1300
00:49:22,309 --> 00:49:18,800
clearances they guarded the internal

1301
00:49:24,230 --> 00:49:22,319
controllment area the outside perimeter

1302
00:49:26,069 --> 00:49:24,240
was all done by whack and hot during

1303
00:49:27,430 --> 00:49:26,079
that time period there's civilian

1304
00:49:29,109 --> 00:49:27,440
security

1305
00:49:31,030 --> 00:49:29,119
we would go out and drive around and we

1306
00:49:33,750 --> 00:49:31,040
go out to the test area where they would

1307
00:49:36,069 --> 00:49:33,760
do the flying and we would we would sit

1308
00:49:38,950 --> 00:49:36,079
there for hours watching at night these

1309
00:49:40,470 --> 00:49:38,960
exotic planes fly or or some kind of

1310
00:49:42,390 --> 00:49:40,480
crash flying

1311
00:49:43,990 --> 00:49:42,400
and they would fly

1312
00:49:46,390 --> 00:49:44,000
probably hundreds of miles an hour and

1313
00:49:49,349 --> 00:49:46,400
stop

1314
00:49:52,150 --> 00:49:49,359
and do all these weird things now

1315
00:49:53,829 --> 00:49:52,160
as dj can can swear to it i i've been in

1316
00:49:59,910 --> 00:49:53,839
many many airplanes

1317
00:50:02,549 --> 00:49:59,920
flew many different type in airplanes

1318
00:50:05,030 --> 00:50:02,559
a pilot couldn't withstand the force the

1319
00:50:07,109 --> 00:50:05,040
g-force by stopping going 100 miles an

1320
00:50:08,630 --> 00:50:07,119
hour right is that not right i i would

1321
00:50:10,470 --> 00:50:08,640
say that's accurate to come to a

1322
00:50:12,710 --> 00:50:10,480
complete stop you would uh you'd

1323
00:50:13,430 --> 00:50:12,720
probably get splattered if you weren't

1324
00:50:15,349 --> 00:50:13,440
uh

1325
00:50:17,430 --> 00:50:15,359
i mean if it's an immediate stop i would

1326
00:50:18,950 --> 00:50:17,440
say no yeah yeah and that's what they

1327
00:50:21,430 --> 00:50:18,960
were doing

1328
00:50:24,950 --> 00:50:21,440
and then one landed close to us once and

1329
00:50:27,910 --> 00:50:24,960
it was an oval-shaped object um

1330
00:50:29,670 --> 00:50:27,920
it landed i would say maybe a mile maybe

1331
00:50:30,790 --> 00:50:29,680
a little over a mile from us on a flat

1332
00:50:34,069 --> 00:50:30,800
area

1333
00:50:36,470 --> 00:50:34,079
uh vehicles went up to it um

1334
00:50:37,349 --> 00:50:36,480
and they were obviously it was having

1335
00:50:39,190 --> 00:50:37,359
some

1336
00:50:40,950 --> 00:50:39,200
sort of a problem

1337
00:50:42,950 --> 00:50:40,960
and eventually

1338
00:50:44,069 --> 00:50:42,960
uh they were able to get it up back up

1339
00:50:46,630 --> 00:50:44,079
in the air

1340
00:50:49,349 --> 00:50:46,640
and what i saw

1341
00:50:52,710 --> 00:50:49,359
it wasn't a conventional craft uh one a

1342
00:50:57,270 --> 00:50:55,430
drones back in those days drone

1343
00:50:59,829 --> 00:50:57,280
technology was highly classified and i

1344
00:51:01,750 --> 00:50:59,839
saw many many uh classified drone

1345
00:51:03,510 --> 00:51:01,760
projects going on in fact i was a

1346
00:51:06,230 --> 00:51:03,520
counterintelligence officer

1347
00:51:08,549 --> 00:51:06,240
for one particular project uh involving

1348
00:51:10,870 --> 00:51:08,559
drone technology so i know what the

1349
00:51:13,430 --> 00:51:10,880
drones were back in those days and these

1350
00:51:16,470 --> 00:51:13,440
weren't drones in fact back in those

1351
00:51:19,349 --> 00:51:16,480
days the order in order to fly a drone

1352
00:51:21,670 --> 00:51:19,359
you'd have to have a a control aircraft

1353
00:51:23,589 --> 00:51:21,680
take off and those control aircrafts

1354
00:51:26,150 --> 00:51:23,599
were uh

1355
00:51:28,230 --> 00:51:26,160
135s they would fly

1356
00:51:29,589 --> 00:51:28,240
and they would be controlling the drones

1357
00:51:31,030 --> 00:51:29,599
in the air they couldn't do it on the

1358
00:51:33,270 --> 00:51:31,040
ground back in those days yeah a lot

1359
00:51:35,190 --> 00:51:33,280
line of sight want to say yeah

1360
00:51:37,990 --> 00:51:35,200
exactly line of sight

1361
00:51:39,349 --> 00:51:38,000
exactly and so and a lot of these plane

1362
00:51:40,390 --> 00:51:39,359
a lot of these drones were being

1363
00:51:43,270 --> 00:51:40,400
launched

1364
00:51:46,470 --> 00:51:43,280
from plane from other planes uh

1365
00:51:50,390 --> 00:51:46,480
135s or 137s um

1366
00:51:51,510 --> 00:51:50,400
and and they even had the old um i can't

1367
00:51:53,430 --> 00:51:51,520
remember

1368
00:51:57,829 --> 00:51:53,440
they were i think they were the box cars

1369
00:52:00,630 --> 00:51:57,839
a c 119 oh like a 119 yeah yeah 119 yeah

1370
00:52:01,750 --> 00:52:00,640
that they had a platform under it

1371
00:52:03,510 --> 00:52:01,760
and there were

1372
00:52:04,790 --> 00:52:03,520
two or four engine props i'm not sure

1373
00:52:06,230 --> 00:52:04,800
whatever yeah

1374
00:52:09,190 --> 00:52:06,240
cops would take off

1375
00:52:11,670 --> 00:52:09,200
and launch these drones

1376
00:52:14,069 --> 00:52:11,680
at a you know a couple thousand feet

1377
00:52:16,150 --> 00:52:14,079
and that's how they would test drones so

1378
00:52:18,230 --> 00:52:16,160
we knew when drones were being tested

1379
00:52:19,190 --> 00:52:18,240
because we we all saw saw the control

1380
00:52:25,910 --> 00:52:19,200
aircraft

1381
00:52:29,670 --> 00:52:25,920
some of what we were seeing uh i can

1382
00:52:31,750 --> 00:52:29,680
trace to the f-117 because we were there

1383
00:52:33,510 --> 00:52:31,760
during that time period the early 80s i

1384
00:52:36,950 --> 00:52:33,520
mean i saw the one i saw it on the

1385
00:52:37,750 --> 00:52:36,960
ground i saw the 1 17 or the prototypes

1386
00:52:39,510 --> 00:52:37,760
because they had three different

1387
00:52:41,349 --> 00:52:39,520
prototypes

1388
00:52:44,470 --> 00:52:41,359
i knew they what they were doing there

1389
00:52:47,190 --> 00:52:44,480
the aurora i saw some other planes that

1390
00:52:49,750 --> 00:52:47,200
were being tested that had never that

1391
00:52:52,309 --> 00:52:49,760
were never made into production

1392
00:52:56,150 --> 00:52:55,190
i think without a doubt that there were

1393
00:53:01,829 --> 00:52:56,160
uh

1394
00:53:03,430 --> 00:53:01,839
51.

1395
00:53:07,109 --> 00:53:03,440
that's 80

1396
00:53:08,630 --> 00:53:07,119
yeah okay good that's great um so thank

1397
00:53:10,309 --> 00:53:08,640
you i want to i want to drift through a

1398
00:53:11,910 --> 00:53:10,319
little bit into the speculative

1399
00:53:13,109 --> 00:53:11,920
territory so

1400
00:53:17,510 --> 00:53:13,119
uh

1401
00:53:18,790 --> 00:53:17,520
because there's a lot of debate about

1402
00:53:21,349 --> 00:53:18,800
this

1403
00:53:22,309 --> 00:53:21,359
were these crashes

1404
00:53:24,950 --> 00:53:22,319
gifts

1405
00:53:26,549 --> 00:53:24,960
or some combination of the two because

1406
00:53:28,470 --> 00:53:26,559
we've heard stories where

1407
00:53:29,910 --> 00:53:28,480
uh you know there's been debris fields

1408
00:53:31,589 --> 00:53:29,920
as you've said and then there are other

1409
00:53:32,950 --> 00:53:31,599
stories we've heard where

1410
00:53:34,549 --> 00:53:32,960
it's almost like they just sort of left

1411
00:53:35,990 --> 00:53:34,559
it with the with the keys right in the

1412
00:53:37,270 --> 00:53:36,000
engine the engine running you know the

1413
00:53:38,549 --> 00:53:37,280
lights are still on and it's just been

1414
00:53:40,549 --> 00:53:38,559
landing and you know you can go ahead

1415
00:53:42,630 --> 00:53:40,559
and take it so what's your opinion on

1416
00:53:45,670 --> 00:53:42,640
this uh debate is it is it a mixture of

1417
00:53:47,430 --> 00:53:45,680
the two or one the other

1418
00:53:48,549 --> 00:53:47,440
well i can give you what i know

1419
00:53:49,510 --> 00:53:48,559
factually

1420
00:53:51,990 --> 00:53:49,520
is that

1421
00:53:53,910 --> 00:53:52,000
it's even better

1422
00:53:57,270 --> 00:53:53,920
i know for a fact that

1423
00:53:58,950 --> 00:53:57,280
some of these crafts uh recoveries

1424
00:54:01,109 --> 00:53:58,960
uh had uh

1425
00:54:03,990 --> 00:54:01,119
dead ets in them so

1426
00:54:06,150 --> 00:54:04,000
uh they crashed and and and i know that

1427
00:54:07,349 --> 00:54:06,160
for a fact i read about them i saw the

1428
00:54:10,790 --> 00:54:07,359
photographs

1429
00:54:12,549 --> 00:54:10,800
uh i can tell you that for a fact now

1430
00:54:13,829 --> 00:54:12,559
there are some occasions i know of two

1431
00:54:16,470 --> 00:54:13,839
occasions

1432
00:54:19,190 --> 00:54:16,480
that i did personal research into

1433
00:54:21,589 --> 00:54:19,200
where they found crafts on the ground

1434
00:54:24,870 --> 00:54:21,599
and like you said they were just there

1435
00:54:28,950 --> 00:54:24,880
they left them now one one was

1436
00:54:31,349 --> 00:54:28,960
down in arizona now near yuma um

1437
00:54:34,790 --> 00:54:31,359
the person uh that

1438
00:54:36,309 --> 00:54:34,800
initially told the story wendell stevens

1439
00:54:37,670 --> 00:54:36,319
i'm sure you you know who wendell

1440
00:54:39,589 --> 00:54:37,680
stevens is

1441
00:54:42,309 --> 00:54:39,599
a very good friend of mine

1442
00:54:44,150 --> 00:54:42,319
window had uh pictures and i did a whole

1443
00:54:46,710 --> 00:54:44,160
presentation on it i think there's a

1444
00:54:49,589 --> 00:54:46,720
video out there too of that really yeah

1445
00:54:51,910 --> 00:54:49,599
there's a human video talking about

1446
00:54:53,990 --> 00:54:51,920
that but not not of the actual finding

1447
00:54:55,430 --> 00:54:54,000
of the crap but by him talking about it

1448
00:54:59,190 --> 00:54:55,440
talking about the team that went out

1449
00:55:01,109 --> 00:54:59,200
there and recovered it from uh

1450
00:55:02,069 --> 00:55:01,119
holloman i think it was luke air force

1451
00:55:04,069 --> 00:55:02,079
base

1452
00:55:05,670 --> 00:55:04,079
yeah luke and uh

1453
00:55:08,549 --> 00:55:05,680
what's the one

1454
00:55:12,390 --> 00:55:10,470
the uh

1455
00:55:13,270 --> 00:55:12,400
uh

1456
00:55:15,990 --> 00:55:13,280
davis

1457
00:55:18,789 --> 00:55:16,000
yeah yeah uh went down and recovered it

1458
00:55:21,670 --> 00:55:18,799
and uh this thing was just on in the

1459
00:55:23,270 --> 00:55:21,680
desert found by some hikers

1460
00:55:25,750 --> 00:55:23,280
uh eventually

1461
00:55:27,589 --> 00:55:25,760
the sheriff got there and and the air

1462
00:55:29,430 --> 00:55:27,599
force got there and

1463
00:55:31,750 --> 00:55:29,440
they actually were

1464
00:55:34,549 --> 00:55:31,760
they could fly it you know how to fly it

1465
00:55:36,950 --> 00:55:34,559
so they went onto big transport vehicle

1466
00:55:39,670 --> 00:55:36,960
and i think

1467
00:55:41,990 --> 00:55:39,680
davis mothman was the closest base

1468
00:55:44,950 --> 00:55:42,000
uh that's in tucson yeah

1469
00:55:47,990 --> 00:55:44,960
to get it up to tucson and to

1470
00:55:50,150 --> 00:55:48,000
davis-monthan and i don't know whatever

1471
00:55:51,030 --> 00:55:50,160
happened to it and dave wendell stephen

1472
00:55:54,710 --> 00:55:51,040
thinks

1473
00:55:56,309 --> 00:55:54,720
it would eventually got to area 51 but

1474
00:55:58,069 --> 00:55:56,319
uh i don't know that they ever learned

1475
00:56:00,069 --> 00:55:58,079
how to fly it so

1476
00:56:01,430 --> 00:56:00,079
that's that's one

1477
00:56:03,750 --> 00:56:01,440
actual

1478
00:56:05,510 --> 00:56:03,760
et craft that i know they just found

1479
00:56:07,109 --> 00:56:05,520
without any bodies in

1480
00:56:09,109 --> 00:56:07,119
amazing so

1481
00:56:11,030 --> 00:56:09,119
so that would fit that nathan maybe what

1482
00:56:12,710 --> 00:56:11,040
you're talking about yeah that certainly

1483
00:56:14,150 --> 00:56:12,720
sounds like it or a drone maybe it was

1484
00:56:16,470 --> 00:56:14,160
doing surveillance

1485
00:56:17,190 --> 00:56:16,480
on their part and then it crashed for

1486
00:56:19,109 --> 00:56:17,200
like

1487
00:56:21,430 --> 00:56:19,119
electromagnetic interference or you know

1488
00:56:23,589 --> 00:56:21,440
actually just you know uh uh lightning

1489
00:56:25,589 --> 00:56:23,599
hit it and it and it reacted you know

1490
00:56:28,069 --> 00:56:25,599
emi can just

1491
00:56:30,710 --> 00:56:28,079
do some serious damage to something well

1492
00:56:31,990 --> 00:56:30,720
let me throw this in when i was

1493
00:56:33,670 --> 00:56:32,000
put off

1494
00:56:36,789 --> 00:56:33,680
one of the things that he was trying to

1495
00:56:40,390 --> 00:56:36,799
work on uh trying to research in

1496
00:56:42,309 --> 00:56:40,400
and there's conjectures all the time

1497
00:56:43,430 --> 00:56:42,319
people saying wait a minute these people

1498
00:56:45,349 --> 00:56:43,440
fly

1499
00:56:47,030 --> 00:56:45,359
hundreds of light years or

1500
00:56:48,789 --> 00:56:47,040
thousands of my

1501
00:56:51,910 --> 00:56:48,799
light years or whatever from another

1502
00:56:53,829 --> 00:56:51,920
planet into our solar system and crash

1503
00:56:55,750 --> 00:56:53,839
how can that happen

1504
00:56:57,349 --> 00:56:55,760
well dr put off

1505
00:56:58,789 --> 00:56:57,359
did a number of different papers

1506
00:57:02,069 --> 00:56:58,799
explaining

1507
00:57:05,670 --> 00:57:04,390
could be distinctly different than where

1508
00:57:08,230 --> 00:57:05,680
they came from

1509
00:57:11,109 --> 00:57:08,240
i mean they leave an atmosphere that is

1510
00:57:14,230 --> 00:57:11,119
entirely different from ours they fly in

1511
00:57:16,150 --> 00:57:14,240
space which is everybody

1512
00:57:18,309 --> 00:57:16,160
spaces same thing

1513
00:57:20,950 --> 00:57:18,319
come into our

1514
00:57:23,349 --> 00:57:20,960
atmosphere with our

1515
00:57:24,390 --> 00:57:23,359
gravity and our inertia systems and so

1516
00:57:26,470 --> 00:57:24,400
forth

1517
00:57:29,190 --> 00:57:26,480
they could experience a whole lot of

1518
00:57:31,990 --> 00:57:29,200
problems that would cause them to crash

1519
00:57:33,750 --> 00:57:32,000
such as lightning and and wind shear and

1520
00:57:35,910 --> 00:57:33,760
all sorts of different things that they

1521
00:57:38,630 --> 00:57:35,920
wouldn't have ever encountered in their

1522
00:57:40,549 --> 00:57:38,640
own in their own planet so just i just

1523
00:57:42,630 --> 00:57:40,559
throw that out there no it's a good

1524
00:57:43,910 --> 00:57:42,640
theory i guess what i'm curious to get

1525
00:57:46,309 --> 00:57:43,920
your take on

1526
00:57:48,630 --> 00:57:46,319
with respect to this is that

1527
00:57:50,789 --> 00:57:48,640
they're

1528
00:57:53,430 --> 00:57:50,799
we're clearly dealing with a very intel

1529
00:57:54,710 --> 00:57:53,440
a high intelligence right so

1530
00:57:56,789 --> 00:57:54,720
what is it

1531
00:57:58,069 --> 00:57:56,799
in your mind what kind of process do you

1532
00:58:01,109 --> 00:57:58,079
go through

1533
00:58:03,829 --> 00:58:01,119
to verify the truthfulness of what we

1534
00:58:05,270 --> 00:58:03,839
are seeing and discovering because

1535
00:58:07,349 --> 00:58:05,280
you know if you're playing if someone's

1536
00:58:10,390 --> 00:58:07,359
playing a game with you and they know

1537
00:58:12,309 --> 00:58:10,400
way more than you do about

1538
00:58:14,549 --> 00:58:12,319
the nature of reality or they have

1539
00:58:16,390 --> 00:58:14,559
mastery over certain technologies or

1540
00:58:17,990 --> 00:58:16,400
we've heard about you know that they

1541
00:58:20,309 --> 00:58:18,000
could have

1542
00:58:22,710 --> 00:58:20,319
uh some degree of control over even our

1543
00:58:24,069 --> 00:58:22,720
our the way we think you know if if you

1544
00:58:25,430 --> 00:58:24,079
if you take all those things into

1545
00:58:27,829 --> 00:58:25,440
consideration

1546
00:58:30,549 --> 00:58:27,839
does that make you question

1547
00:58:32,630 --> 00:58:30,559
kind of what what you see and if it does

1548
00:58:33,990 --> 00:58:32,640
what are the things that eliminate we

1549
00:58:35,910 --> 00:58:34,000
lost rick entirely

1550
00:58:37,270 --> 00:58:35,920
oh my goodness this is terrible i'll

1551
00:58:38,710 --> 00:58:37,280
take that question we're going to repeat

1552
00:58:40,390 --> 00:58:38,720
that question yeah why don't you take

1553
00:58:42,630 --> 00:58:40,400
that question the nexus

1554
00:58:43,430 --> 00:58:42,640
i'm just kidding

1555
00:58:44,549 --> 00:58:43,440
no

1556
00:58:46,950 --> 00:58:44,559
it's fascinating

1557
00:58:50,470 --> 00:58:46,960
he's he's yeah he's he's phenomenal i

1558
00:58:52,630 --> 00:58:50,480
mean this like he is giving us a lot of

1559
00:58:54,309 --> 00:58:52,640
interesting things that uh i i hadn't

1560
00:58:57,190 --> 00:58:54,319
heard him talk about so i'm very

1561
00:58:59,829 --> 00:58:57,200
gratified that that he's sharing a lot

1562
00:59:01,190 --> 00:58:59,839
uh i i kind of like what i don't know

1563
00:59:03,430 --> 00:59:01,200
what you think nathan i kind of would

1564
00:59:05,109 --> 00:59:03,440
like to get his thing you know we don't

1565
00:59:07,349 --> 00:59:05,119
want to keep him all that long because

1566
00:59:09,589 --> 00:59:07,359
now it's been an hour at this point uh i

1567
00:59:11,750 --> 00:59:09,599
would like to get his take on on tic tac

1568
00:59:14,069 --> 00:59:11,760
and what what thoughts went through his

1569
00:59:15,990 --> 00:59:14,079
head when he saw the performance of that

1570
00:59:17,910 --> 00:59:16,000
and the interaction i would like to get

1571
00:59:20,309 --> 00:59:17,920
his thoughts on whether what he what

1572
00:59:22,630 --> 00:59:20,319
does he think about if possibly some of

1573
00:59:25,030 --> 00:59:22,640
these intelligence were were born here

1574
00:59:27,109 --> 00:59:25,040
and originated here and are appearing

1575
00:59:29,670 --> 00:59:27,119
and disappearing which we we in the

1576
00:59:31,510 --> 00:59:29,680
community think that's a a very very

1577
00:59:33,589 --> 00:59:31,520
plausible hypothesis

1578
00:59:35,829 --> 00:59:33,599
um and i was going to mention pressure

1579
00:59:38,309 --> 00:59:35,839
is what what he was talking about um

1580
00:59:40,390 --> 00:59:38,319
when they come into our atmosphere 14.7

1581
00:59:43,589 --> 00:59:40,400
psi of pressure at

1582
00:59:45,109 --> 00:59:43,599
at sea level that hi rick i'm back

1583
00:59:47,270 --> 00:59:45,119
what's going on i got high speed

1584
00:59:49,109 --> 00:59:47,280
internet here too yeah something fishy

1585
00:59:51,349 --> 00:59:49,119
is happening here rick well uh

1586
00:59:52,870 --> 00:59:51,359
somebody's probably fearing man

1587
00:59:54,870 --> 00:59:52,880
you probably got the gist of my question

1588
00:59:56,789 --> 00:59:54,880
but i guess you know as someone who has

1589
00:59:58,789 --> 00:59:56,799
a background in intelligence and and

1590
01:00:00,390 --> 00:59:58,799
discerning truthfulness

1591
01:00:03,829 --> 01:00:00,400
what are the things that you use to

1592
01:00:05,190 --> 01:00:03,839
apply to this topic that help you get to

1593
01:00:06,470 --> 01:00:05,200
a place where you have a high degree of

1594
01:00:10,710 --> 01:00:06,480
confidence in what it is that you're

1595
01:00:12,150 --> 01:00:10,720
seeing and hearing uh about ufo

1596
01:00:13,910 --> 01:00:12,160
well

1597
01:00:16,150 --> 01:00:13,920
during my time man i learned a lot of

1598
01:00:20,630 --> 01:00:16,160
scientifics i'm not a scientist

1599
01:00:23,109 --> 01:00:20,640
i i am a uh uh i do teach math online so

1600
01:00:26,390 --> 01:00:23,119
i i don't something about mathematics

1601
01:00:28,789 --> 01:00:26,400
but i i don't know anything about the

1602
01:00:30,630 --> 01:00:28,799
celestial navigation or mechanics or

1603
01:00:31,670 --> 01:00:30,640
anything like that uh

1604
01:00:35,270 --> 01:00:31,680
so

1605
01:00:38,390 --> 01:00:35,280
uh

1606
01:00:40,630 --> 01:00:38,400
indicators one of the things we learned

1607
01:00:43,750 --> 01:00:40,640
in uh in training

1608
01:00:46,069 --> 01:00:43,760
um is uh how to interrogate yeah

1609
01:00:47,190 --> 01:00:46,079
interviews and interrogations distinctly

1610
01:00:49,270 --> 01:00:47,200
different interviewing somebody

1611
01:00:50,630 --> 01:00:49,280
interrogating somebody you watch your

1612
01:00:53,030 --> 01:00:50,640
mannerisms

1613
01:00:54,950 --> 01:00:53,040
uh and so forth so i'm a pretty good

1614
01:00:57,109 --> 01:00:54,960
judge of characters i looked at person

1615
01:00:58,549 --> 01:00:57,119
in their eyes if they can't maintain eye

1616
01:00:59,430 --> 01:00:58,559
contact with me

1617
01:01:01,510 --> 01:00:59,440
um

1618
01:01:02,630 --> 01:01:01,520
i've heard stories

1619
01:01:05,349 --> 01:01:02,640
that were

1620
01:01:07,430 --> 01:01:05,359
clearly out of this world so to speak

1621
01:01:09,030 --> 01:01:07,440
and some of them

1622
01:01:11,430 --> 01:01:09,040
what i'll do is i'll listen to every

1623
01:01:13,829 --> 01:01:11,440
anybody at ufo conventions or

1624
01:01:16,710 --> 01:01:13,839
people sending me emails i'll listen to

1625
01:01:18,470 --> 01:01:16,720
them and then i judge them by number one

1626
01:01:20,789 --> 01:01:18,480
their character what i can determine the

1627
01:01:23,270 --> 01:01:20,799
character and personality and then also

1628
01:01:24,470 --> 01:01:23,280
by the information the subject matter

1629
01:01:27,030 --> 01:01:24,480
they're giving me some of the

1630
01:01:29,750 --> 01:01:27,040
information i hear is just

1631
01:01:32,630 --> 01:01:29,760
total baloney i mean what they claim

1632
01:01:34,390 --> 01:01:32,640
they saw or did uh i'll just say well

1633
01:01:36,470 --> 01:01:34,400
you know i wasn't there you saw whatever

1634
01:01:37,349 --> 01:01:36,480
you did i i can't really make a judgment

1635
01:01:40,309 --> 01:01:37,359
on that

1636
01:01:41,910 --> 01:01:40,319
um if it's at a ufo convention

1637
01:01:43,990 --> 01:01:41,920
uh people

1638
01:01:47,190 --> 01:01:44,000
most most of these people

1639
01:01:49,589 --> 01:01:47,200
uh will be abductees or

1640
01:01:51,829 --> 01:01:49,599
contactees they call them now and

1641
01:01:54,630 --> 01:01:51,839
they'll come and they'll talk to me well

1642
01:01:57,029 --> 01:01:54,640
i had never been briefed in any programs

1643
01:02:00,069 --> 01:01:57,039
regarding abductees

1644
01:02:02,309 --> 01:02:00,079
until one i i was i didn't handle one i

1645
01:02:03,589 --> 01:02:02,319
could talk about that a little bit later

1646
01:02:05,750 --> 01:02:03,599
and so

1647
01:02:07,990 --> 01:02:05,760
uh i believe that they're

1648
01:02:09,910 --> 01:02:08,000
now i believe at the time and but now i

1649
01:02:11,430 --> 01:02:09,920
believe that there's something to the

1650
01:02:14,150 --> 01:02:11,440
abduction

1651
01:02:16,390 --> 01:02:14,160
phenomena definitely something to it and

1652
01:02:18,710 --> 01:02:16,400
i believe a lot of people and i and i

1653
01:02:20,870 --> 01:02:18,720
really apologize to a lot of people

1654
01:02:23,510 --> 01:02:20,880
over the years that i didn't believe

1655
01:02:26,390 --> 01:02:23,520
i was wrong i mean i know everything

1656
01:02:27,910 --> 01:02:26,400
uh and and i believe a lot of what i

1657
01:02:30,150 --> 01:02:27,920
heard before

1658
01:02:32,150 --> 01:02:30,160
uh i i understand what they were telling

1659
01:02:34,390 --> 01:02:32,160
me that was was truthful

1660
01:02:35,990 --> 01:02:34,400
so that's how i judge people and i judge

1661
01:02:38,390 --> 01:02:36,000
most of it on

1662
01:02:40,789 --> 01:02:38,400
what people tell me like for instance

1663
01:02:44,390 --> 01:02:40,799
i they they claim that they saw a

1664
01:02:47,349 --> 01:02:44,400
aircraft they saw this ufo flying and it

1665
01:02:49,589 --> 01:02:47,359
had these lights on it and well

1666
01:02:51,430 --> 01:02:49,599
you know i'm a trained air traffic

1667
01:02:53,750 --> 01:02:51,440
control specialist

1668
01:02:56,230 --> 01:02:53,760
leaving a i know the lighting systems of

1669
01:02:57,829 --> 01:02:56,240
every single aircraft i know where the

1670
01:02:59,430 --> 01:02:57,839
red light is and the

1671
01:03:00,710 --> 01:02:59,440
and what they're telling me is they're

1672
01:03:02,870 --> 01:03:00,720
describing

1673
01:03:04,470 --> 01:03:02,880
an faa lighting pattern of an aircraft

1674
01:03:07,270 --> 01:03:04,480
and i tried to tell them that i said

1675
01:03:09,750 --> 01:03:07,280
well you know what if a ufo comes to our

1676
01:03:10,950 --> 01:03:09,760
planet they're not going to obey our faa

1677
01:03:12,390 --> 01:03:10,960
rules

1678
01:03:14,069 --> 01:03:12,400
i mean it'd be convenient if they would

1679
01:03:17,109 --> 01:03:14,079
it would be nice i mean

1680
01:03:19,029 --> 01:03:17,119
it would be nice that'd be nice so i'm

1681
01:03:21,910 --> 01:03:19,039
saying yeah you know i don't think what

1682
01:03:23,670 --> 01:03:21,920
you saw was in fact a ufo i think i

1683
01:03:26,549 --> 01:03:23,680
think it was probably a

1684
01:03:29,349 --> 01:03:26,559
a regular aircraft uh

1685
01:03:31,190 --> 01:03:29,359
maybe an air force plane or or a

1686
01:03:34,390 --> 01:03:31,200
civilian

1687
01:03:37,349 --> 01:03:34,400
airliner and so i'll judge him in that

1688
01:03:38,870 --> 01:03:37,359
respect and so and then there's some

1689
01:03:40,150 --> 01:03:38,880
that you just can't

1690
01:03:42,549 --> 01:03:40,160
some people

1691
01:03:44,390 --> 01:03:42,559
will uh like one particular person i'm

1692
01:03:47,670 --> 01:03:44,400
not gonna name the person

1693
01:03:50,710 --> 01:03:47,680
i do shows a gaia i guess you know that

1694
01:03:53,190 --> 01:03:50,720
yeah i did not know that i have about 20

1695
01:03:54,470 --> 01:03:53,200
episodes on gaia cosmic disclosure with

1696
01:03:55,349 --> 01:03:54,480
emery smith

1697
01:03:56,950 --> 01:03:55,359
um

1698
01:03:58,390 --> 01:03:56,960
and there's another person there that

1699
01:03:59,190 --> 01:03:58,400
does some shows

1700
01:04:01,029 --> 01:03:59,200
and

1701
01:04:04,309 --> 01:04:01,039
you know he has a lot of claims about

1702
01:04:05,990 --> 01:04:04,319
being this and that and and and a secret

1703
01:04:07,430 --> 01:04:06,000
space program

1704
01:04:09,670 --> 01:04:07,440
um

1705
01:04:12,710 --> 01:04:09,680
he passed a polygraph examination he

1706
01:04:14,069 --> 01:04:12,720
passed a stress test uh maybe he's

1707
01:04:15,589 --> 01:04:14,079
telling the truth i just don't know

1708
01:04:19,270 --> 01:04:15,599
about any of this so

1709
01:04:20,789 --> 01:04:19,280
i can't judge people anymore uh like i

1710
01:04:23,510 --> 01:04:20,799
like i used to i mean i go to ufo

1711
01:04:25,029 --> 01:04:23,520
conventions and listen to people and i

1712
01:04:26,789 --> 01:04:25,039
want to believe them

1713
01:04:29,109 --> 01:04:26,799
and a lot of people tell me the truth

1714
01:04:31,430 --> 01:04:29,119
they they they tell me this objects

1715
01:04:34,390 --> 01:04:31,440
flying around it didn't have any lights

1716
01:04:36,150 --> 01:04:34,400
on well number one

1717
01:04:39,670 --> 01:04:36,160
that's a good indicator that it was

1718
01:04:43,190 --> 01:04:39,680
something probably i didn't know because

1719
01:04:46,230 --> 01:04:43,200
you can't you can't uh excuse me

1720
01:04:47,990 --> 01:04:46,240
you can't uh fly a a plane

1721
01:04:49,510 --> 01:04:48,000
unless it's under a certain altitude

1722
01:04:51,670 --> 01:04:49,520
without a lighting system at night you

1723
01:04:53,270 --> 01:04:51,680
just can't do that right you i mean you

1724
01:04:55,029 --> 01:04:53,280
can but you're gonna you're very

1725
01:04:57,990 --> 01:04:55,039
dangerous for some problems you're gonna

1726
01:04:59,190 --> 01:04:58,000
have f-16s chasing you so somewhere so

1727
01:05:00,630 --> 01:04:59,200
ryder

1728
01:05:01,430 --> 01:05:00,640
yeah exactly

1729
01:05:03,349 --> 01:05:01,440
so

1730
01:05:05,670 --> 01:05:03,359
uh that's how i judge people to answer

1731
01:05:07,589 --> 01:05:05,680
your question no that's great well i

1732
01:05:10,789 --> 01:05:07,599
know we want to transition to

1733
01:05:12,549 --> 01:05:10,799
the recent stuff dj but really quickly

1734
01:05:14,710 --> 01:05:12,559
do you feel like we're we're kind of

1735
01:05:16,309 --> 01:05:14,720
disentangling this though from the past

1736
01:05:20,390 --> 01:05:16,319
like

1737
01:05:21,430 --> 01:05:20,400
to be very clear and then it kind of got

1738
01:05:23,670 --> 01:05:21,440
pretty

1739
01:05:25,750 --> 01:05:23,680
as the community

1740
01:05:29,029 --> 01:05:25,760
like allowed its imagination to go to

1741
01:05:31,430 --> 01:05:29,039
run wild and now we are left kind of

1742
01:05:33,589 --> 01:05:31,440
trying to put it back together and and

1743
01:05:35,990 --> 01:05:33,599
form a coherent story do you feel like

1744
01:05:38,470 --> 01:05:36,000
that there's been a lot of damage from

1745
01:05:39,990 --> 01:05:38,480
the intervening years and

1746
01:05:41,589 --> 01:05:40,000
we're now trying to set the right record

1747
01:05:44,710 --> 01:05:41,599
straight and we're doing we're kind of

1748
01:05:47,910 --> 01:05:44,720
restoring the trust with the people and

1749
01:05:50,150 --> 01:05:47,920
telling what's really going on

1750
01:05:51,670 --> 01:05:50,160
well absolutely and you know i have to

1751
01:05:53,029 --> 01:05:51,680
blame

1752
01:05:56,470 --> 01:05:53,039
um

1753
01:05:58,789 --> 01:05:56,480
us intelligence for a lot of this

1754
01:05:59,910 --> 01:05:58,799
because and me me being being one of

1755
01:06:03,990 --> 01:05:59,920
them uh

1756
01:06:06,230 --> 01:06:04,000
there were a lot of uh programs that we

1757
01:06:08,069 --> 01:06:06,240
uh we did back in the

1758
01:06:09,990 --> 01:06:08,079
late 70s and 80s

1759
01:06:12,069 --> 01:06:10,000
that was disinformation we call them

1760
01:06:14,069 --> 01:06:12,079
counterintelligence operations sure but

1761
01:06:16,870 --> 01:06:14,079
we just informed the public public we

1762
01:06:21,029 --> 01:06:16,880
did we did some things that i'm not i'm

1763
01:06:23,190 --> 01:06:21,039
not proud of i can admit to it

1764
01:06:24,150 --> 01:06:23,200
in disinforming uh the paul benowitz

1765
01:06:26,630 --> 01:06:24,160
case

1766
01:06:28,710 --> 01:06:26,640
and and others um

1767
01:06:30,710 --> 01:06:28,720
trying to convince a person one way to

1768
01:06:32,390 --> 01:06:30,720
the other convincing them that what they

1769
01:06:34,789 --> 01:06:32,400
were seeing

1770
01:06:37,750 --> 01:06:34,799
was in fact ufo when it was really a

1771
01:06:39,510 --> 01:06:37,760
classified air force project or or vice

1772
01:06:41,190 --> 01:06:39,520
versa convincing it was air force

1773
01:06:42,950 --> 01:06:41,200
project when it was actually something

1774
01:06:44,950 --> 01:06:42,960
we didn't know about yeah so we didn't

1775
01:06:48,309 --> 01:06:44,960
want

1776
01:06:51,670 --> 01:06:48,319
uh a a um upset public

1777
01:06:53,349 --> 01:06:51,680
or a panic public so uh the government

1778
01:06:55,510 --> 01:06:53,359
is responsible and that wasn't just me

1779
01:06:57,029 --> 01:06:55,520
there were thousands of other uh

1780
01:06:59,750 --> 01:06:57,039
intelligence officers doing the exact

1781
01:07:03,190 --> 01:06:59,760
same thing that i was doing so uh i

1782
01:07:05,589 --> 01:07:03,200
think that's uh we put we put a a wrench

1783
01:07:07,910 --> 01:07:05,599
in there a monkey wrench in there and

1784
01:07:10,230 --> 01:07:07,920
and we we would be responsible for some

1785
01:07:13,109 --> 01:07:10,240
of that but on the other hand the ufo

1786
01:07:16,069 --> 01:07:13,119
community did it themselves sure by

1787
01:07:18,710 --> 01:07:16,079
writing books uh about things that are

1788
01:07:19,430 --> 01:07:18,720
absolutely not true

1789
01:07:22,549 --> 01:07:19,440
and

1790
01:07:23,829 --> 01:07:22,559
putting uh fear in the public

1791
01:07:27,589 --> 01:07:23,839
uh although

1792
01:07:30,950 --> 01:07:27,599
um i don't wanna sound dramatic now or

1793
01:07:33,270 --> 01:07:30,960
or sound uh upset anybody but there are

1794
01:07:34,789 --> 01:07:33,280
things out there that i

1795
01:07:36,470 --> 01:07:34,799
witnessed

1796
01:07:38,309 --> 01:07:36,480
or i read

1797
01:07:41,190 --> 01:07:38,319
i would briefed into

1798
01:07:43,589 --> 01:07:41,200
that scared me i mean very i mean really

1799
01:07:45,349 --> 01:07:43,599
really scared me and believe me

1800
01:07:48,710 --> 01:07:45,359
i don't scare easy

1801
01:07:51,109 --> 01:07:48,720
i believe that i 100 believe that i

1802
01:07:53,430 --> 01:07:51,119
jumped into an area i jumped into an

1803
01:07:54,630 --> 01:07:53,440
area that there's four of us that jumped

1804
01:07:55,670 --> 01:07:54,640
into and

1805
01:07:58,230 --> 01:07:55,680
it was

1806
01:08:00,470 --> 01:07:58,240
in back in my combat control days and it

1807
01:08:01,910 --> 01:08:00,480
was very you know very dangerous anyways

1808
01:08:02,789 --> 01:08:01,920
getting off that but

1809
01:08:04,549 --> 01:08:02,799
you know

1810
01:08:06,230 --> 01:08:04,559
that really does scare me the things

1811
01:08:08,069 --> 01:08:06,240
that i read and i would i don't want to

1812
01:08:10,069 --> 01:08:08,079
repeat some of the stuff is still

1813
01:08:11,510 --> 01:08:10,079
classified some of the things that

1814
01:08:14,069 --> 01:08:11,520
happened

1815
01:08:16,229 --> 01:08:14,079
that that i was there and witnessed is

1816
01:08:17,829 --> 01:08:16,239
are still classified so there are things

1817
01:08:19,430 --> 01:08:17,839
out there that uh

1818
01:08:20,229 --> 01:08:19,440
be careful what you ask for because of

1819
01:08:21,110 --> 01:08:20,239
course

1820
01:08:23,189 --> 01:08:21,120
yeah

1821
01:08:25,910 --> 01:08:23,199
i'm with you and we we wouldn't ask you

1822
01:08:28,789 --> 01:08:25,920
to to violate anything i'm kind of

1823
01:08:31,110 --> 01:08:28,799
curious to get your perspective on

1824
01:08:33,189 --> 01:08:31,120
there's a lot of theories now

1825
01:08:35,430 --> 01:08:33,199
that are based upon

1826
01:08:37,910 --> 01:08:35,440
vehicles that we see in the air and i've

1827
01:08:40,470 --> 01:08:37,920
kind of stopped using the term flying in

1828
01:08:42,789 --> 01:08:40,480
some instances particularly with tic tac

1829
01:08:45,430 --> 01:08:42,799
because the way that it operates it

1830
01:08:47,749 --> 01:08:45,440
doesn't seem to interact with the air

1831
01:08:48,950 --> 01:08:47,759
the way that uh bernoulli's theorem

1832
01:08:53,510 --> 01:08:48,960
would dictate

1833
01:08:55,749 --> 01:08:53,520
you know first and third laws of motion

1834
01:08:57,269 --> 01:08:55,759
these types of things so i'm not sure

1835
01:08:58,709 --> 01:08:57,279
that they're flying but they're moving

1836
01:08:59,590 --> 01:08:58,719
in our airspace

1837
01:09:00,950 --> 01:08:59,600
um

1838
01:09:02,870 --> 01:09:00,960
because of the fact that some of these

1839
01:09:04,630 --> 01:09:02,880
are going underwater

1840
01:09:07,110 --> 01:09:04,640
where are you on the hypothesis that

1841
01:09:10,470 --> 01:09:07,120
maybe they are from here and are already

1842
01:09:12,709 --> 01:09:10,480
here and are making themselves appear or

1843
01:09:13,430 --> 01:09:12,719
making themselves known when they want

1844
01:09:18,229 --> 01:09:13,440
to

1845
01:09:19,990 --> 01:09:18,239
another medium in the ocean when they

1846
01:09:22,470 --> 01:09:20,000
want to what are your thoughts about

1847
01:09:25,189 --> 01:09:22,480
that hypothesis

1848
01:09:28,149 --> 01:09:25,199
well there are a lot of cases out there

1849
01:09:31,430 --> 01:09:29,430
pertain to

1850
01:09:33,990 --> 01:09:31,440
ufos being seen

1851
01:09:37,349 --> 01:09:34,000
over the ocean over over a body of water

1852
01:09:39,189 --> 01:09:37,359
disappearing into the ocean

1853
01:09:41,829 --> 01:09:39,199
i was never

1854
01:09:43,510 --> 01:09:41,839
never briefed in anything regarding it

1855
01:09:46,550 --> 01:09:43,520
underwater ufo

1856
01:09:49,269 --> 01:09:46,560
i know there were other others i'm a

1857
01:09:52,149 --> 01:09:49,279
member of a retired retired intelligence

1858
01:09:54,630 --> 01:09:52,159
association we have naval officer naval

1859
01:09:56,310 --> 01:09:54,640
intelligence officers in that and they

1860
01:09:59,110 --> 01:09:56,320
tell stories about what they had been

1861
01:10:01,350 --> 01:09:59,120
briefed into regarding uh

1862
01:10:04,470 --> 01:10:01,360
the ufo are you

1863
01:10:06,630 --> 01:10:04,480
under surf surface under underwater

1864
01:10:10,790 --> 01:10:06,640
uso which excuse me yes thank you thanks

1865
01:10:11,830 --> 01:10:10,800
nathan nathan uh usos uh then they and

1866
01:10:14,870 --> 01:10:11,840
there's a

1867
01:10:19,189 --> 01:10:14,880
the most classic was a as a

1868
01:10:21,990 --> 01:10:19,199
submarine that was traveling in the

1869
01:10:25,189 --> 01:10:22,000
this was in the 80s uh chasing a soviet

1870
01:10:27,669 --> 01:10:25,199
submarine in the uh bering strait

1871
01:10:28,790 --> 01:10:27,679
um and they were i don't know how deep

1872
01:10:30,470 --> 01:10:28,800
they were but

1873
01:10:32,709 --> 01:10:30,480
um

1874
01:10:34,070 --> 01:10:32,719
our submarines chasing they were a

1875
01:10:35,910 --> 01:10:34,080
thousand meters from the russian

1876
01:10:37,830 --> 01:10:35,920
submarine all of a sudden

1877
01:10:38,870 --> 01:10:37,840
this craft comes in

1878
01:10:40,470 --> 01:10:38,880
to view

1879
01:10:42,790 --> 01:10:40,480
on sonar

1880
01:10:45,110 --> 01:10:42,800
and it comes right up in front of the

1881
01:10:47,189 --> 01:10:45,120
the the uss submarine i can't remember

1882
01:10:48,310 --> 01:10:47,199
what the name of it was uh

1883
01:10:49,910 --> 01:10:48,320
anyways whatever the name of the

1884
01:10:53,350 --> 01:10:49,920
submarine was

1885
01:10:55,669 --> 01:10:53,360
shocking the whole crew the 80-man crew

1886
01:10:57,189 --> 01:10:55,679
and not knowing what this thing was

1887
01:10:59,350 --> 01:10:57,199
they first thought that it might have

1888
01:11:02,229 --> 01:10:59,360
been something that the soviets had

1889
01:11:03,990 --> 01:11:02,239
fired at him uh maybe an underwater big

1890
01:11:06,870 --> 01:11:04,000
torpedo or something

1891
01:11:08,790 --> 01:11:06,880
but the thing just stopped so it forced

1892
01:11:10,310 --> 01:11:08,800
our submarines stopped

1893
01:11:12,550 --> 01:11:10,320
and now back in those days they

1894
01:11:13,350 --> 01:11:12,560
explained this this

1895
01:11:15,990 --> 01:11:13,360
uh

1896
01:11:18,870 --> 01:11:16,000
in fact i actually talked to spoke with

1897
01:11:20,390 --> 01:11:18,880
not on not in person but on phone of the

1898
01:11:21,669 --> 01:11:20,400
submarine commander

1899
01:11:23,510 --> 01:11:21,679
back in those days they didn't have

1900
01:11:27,110 --> 01:11:23,520
monitors they didn't if they didn't have

1901
01:11:29,669 --> 01:11:27,120
uh uh cameras everything was on sonar so

1902
01:11:31,910 --> 01:11:29,679
everything was sonar pictured and they

1903
01:11:33,430 --> 01:11:31,920
see this picture and none of the sonar

1904
01:11:34,550 --> 01:11:33,440
operators the experts could figure out

1905
01:11:36,790 --> 01:11:34,560
what it was

1906
01:11:39,110 --> 01:11:36,800
it seemed to have mass

1907
01:11:41,669 --> 01:11:39,120
but it then it seemed to be less dense

1908
01:11:43,189 --> 01:11:41,679
than something that they would like a a

1909
01:11:44,790 --> 01:11:43,199
metal object

1910
01:11:48,390 --> 01:11:44,800
they couldn't figure it out

1911
01:11:50,630 --> 01:11:48,400
but it did give the the the soviets uh

1912
01:11:52,550 --> 01:11:50,640
a chance to get away so to speak

1913
01:11:55,110 --> 01:11:52,560
and this thing stayed with us for a long

1914
01:11:57,830 --> 01:11:55,120
time when eventually we surfaced and

1915
01:11:58,709 --> 01:11:57,840
there was a uh a destroyer or a navy

1916
01:12:01,110 --> 01:11:58,719
ship

1917
01:12:03,189 --> 01:12:01,120
some distance away but came up

1918
01:12:05,669 --> 01:12:03,199
when they when they surfaced this huge

1919
01:12:07,270 --> 01:12:05,679
object came out of the water

1920
01:12:10,790 --> 01:12:07,280
it came up above the surface and then

1921
01:12:12,709 --> 01:12:10,800
flew above him away now

1922
01:12:16,310 --> 01:12:12,719
you know he says i didn't believe in

1923
01:12:18,470 --> 01:12:16,320
ufos or anything like that now usos now

1924
01:12:20,310 --> 01:12:18,480
what what was that it couldn't be one of

1925
01:12:21,270 --> 01:12:20,320
ours could it

1926
01:12:23,750 --> 01:12:21,280
so

1927
01:12:26,390 --> 01:12:23,760
after that and this was years after i

1928
01:12:28,310 --> 01:12:26,400
got out uh i tend to think there's

1929
01:12:30,790 --> 01:12:28,320
something to it now whether

1930
01:12:33,750 --> 01:12:30,800
we they have a base

1931
01:12:35,270 --> 01:12:33,760
under the ocean like 32 only 32 percent

1932
01:12:37,110 --> 01:12:35,280
of our oceans

1933
01:12:39,270 --> 01:12:37,120
have ever been mapped so

1934
01:12:41,030 --> 01:12:39,280
uh you know we got

1935
01:12:42,950 --> 01:12:41,040
millions of miles of oceans out there

1936
01:12:44,630 --> 01:12:42,960
that we don't know what's down there i

1937
01:12:47,030 --> 01:12:44,640
mean there they were taught they just

1938
01:12:49,430 --> 01:12:47,040
recently i i was listening to somebody

1939
01:12:52,630 --> 01:12:49,440
talk about the indian ocean the southern

1940
01:12:54,470 --> 01:12:52,640
indian ocean and near antarctica

1941
01:12:55,750 --> 01:12:54,480
none of that's ever been met they don't

1942
01:12:57,110 --> 01:12:55,760
know

1943
01:12:59,270 --> 01:12:57,120
okay so

1944
01:13:01,830 --> 01:12:59,280
could degree basis down there

1945
01:13:04,070 --> 01:13:01,840
they're very possible could it be some

1946
01:13:05,750 --> 01:13:04,080
sort of an interdimensional

1947
01:13:09,110 --> 01:13:05,760
craft

1948
01:13:11,669 --> 01:13:09,120
i'm not so much into that i'm not i i

1949
01:13:14,229 --> 01:13:11,679
uh dr put off did a paper on that too

1950
01:13:16,470 --> 01:13:14,239
and you really have to be

1951
01:13:20,149 --> 01:13:16,480
um

1952
01:13:21,830 --> 01:13:20,159
schooled in uh theoretical physics

1953
01:13:23,350 --> 01:13:21,840
to understand

1954
01:13:25,669 --> 01:13:23,360
the

1955
01:13:28,390 --> 01:13:25,679
what would it take

1956
01:13:30,630 --> 01:13:28,400
to fly something in an inner dimension

1957
01:13:33,270 --> 01:13:30,640
and then we see it

1958
01:13:35,189 --> 01:13:33,280
you know it's it's really complex

1959
01:13:36,709 --> 01:13:35,199
so i i'm not sure

1960
01:13:38,149 --> 01:13:36,719
i mean maybe it maybe there is and i

1961
01:13:39,910 --> 01:13:38,159
just don't know about it

1962
01:13:42,310 --> 01:13:39,920
and i i mean there's a lot of things out

1963
01:13:44,229 --> 01:13:42,320
there that i that you're open to it open

1964
01:13:44,950 --> 01:13:44,239
to it i'll be very open to it yes sure

1965
01:13:46,229 --> 01:13:44,960
well

1966
01:13:48,229 --> 01:13:46,239
i just want to say one more thing to

1967
01:13:49,830 --> 01:13:48,239
rick before i turn it to nathan yeah

1968
01:13:51,910 --> 01:13:49,840
rick i know it'll give you great

1969
01:13:54,390 --> 01:13:51,920
pleasure to know that in my head when i

1970
01:13:55,110 --> 01:13:54,400
hear the names rick dodie and hal put

1971
01:13:56,870 --> 01:13:55,120
off

1972
01:13:59,030 --> 01:13:56,880
and kit green

1973
01:14:01,110 --> 01:13:59,040
and and admiral wilson like this

1974
01:14:02,709 --> 01:14:01,120
mysterious music goes off of my head

1975
01:14:04,390 --> 01:14:02,719
it's amazing you're one of the people

1976
01:14:06,149 --> 01:14:04,400
that makes that happen

1977
01:14:07,910 --> 01:14:06,159
i'm sorry i'm being an idiot but this is

1978
01:14:09,669 --> 01:14:07,920
so much fun you're so much fun rick

1979
01:14:10,630 --> 01:14:09,679
thanks for playing yeah i enjoyed having

1980
01:14:11,350 --> 01:14:10,640
another show

1981
01:14:13,350 --> 01:14:11,360
well

1982
01:14:14,470 --> 01:14:13,360
and i guess i'm curious rick so over

1983
01:14:18,149 --> 01:14:14,480
time

1984
01:14:19,830 --> 01:14:18,159
uh as our science has advanced you know

1985
01:14:21,990 --> 01:14:19,840
we have gone from

1986
01:14:24,870 --> 01:14:22,000
uh understanding that you know we're in

1987
01:14:26,709 --> 01:14:24,880
a we're in a galaxy or a planet there we

1988
01:14:28,870 --> 01:14:26,719
even know there are many planets for

1989
01:14:31,030 --> 01:14:28,880
until very in the last i think you know

1990
01:14:33,110 --> 01:14:31,040
three decades or so outside of our solar

1991
01:14:34,950 --> 01:14:33,120
system and then we started imaging them

1992
01:14:36,550 --> 01:14:34,960
and seeing them but then going into

1993
01:14:37,910 --> 01:14:36,560
quantum physics understanding quantum

1994
01:14:39,590 --> 01:14:37,920
physics has changed the way that we look

1995
01:14:42,149 --> 01:14:39,600
at the world and then of course we're on

1996
01:14:44,550 --> 01:14:42,159
the cusp of artificial intelligence and

1997
01:14:46,229 --> 01:14:44,560
we and people talk about ai like ai is

1998
01:14:48,550 --> 01:14:46,239
everywhere but we really haven't yet

1999
01:14:51,030 --> 01:14:48,560
achieved ai we're but we are close and

2000
01:14:53,510 --> 01:14:51,040
we're working on getting there but we

2001
01:14:55,350 --> 01:14:53,520
it's within reach and my point here is

2002
01:14:58,790 --> 01:14:55,360
as our science as our understanding of

2003
01:15:01,430 --> 01:14:58,800
what we are capable of changes does that

2004
01:15:03,910 --> 01:15:01,440
impact our understanding of what this

2005
01:15:05,910 --> 01:15:03,920
actually is

2006
01:15:07,110 --> 01:15:05,920
well absolutely

2007
01:15:08,550 --> 01:15:07,120
in fact

2008
01:15:12,790 --> 01:15:08,560
the

2009
01:15:15,590 --> 01:15:12,800
scientific community

2010
01:15:16,870 --> 01:15:15,600
the uh darpa scientists

2011
01:15:18,790 --> 01:15:16,880
scientists

2012
01:15:21,669 --> 01:15:18,800
in the in the

2013
01:15:24,870 --> 01:15:21,679
secret rooms in los alamos and sandia

2014
01:15:30,950 --> 01:15:28,470
they're doing exactly that as as our

2015
01:15:34,470 --> 01:15:30,960
technology advances our scientific

2016
01:15:36,709 --> 01:15:34,480
understanding of the universe advances

2017
01:15:39,510 --> 01:15:36,719
we go in and bring out these objects

2018
01:15:41,669 --> 01:15:39,520
that we found years ago

2019
01:15:43,350 --> 01:15:41,679
and try to understand them more

2020
01:15:46,149 --> 01:15:43,360
now with our advanced

2021
01:15:47,669 --> 01:15:46,159
learning uh we might be able to

2022
01:15:48,550 --> 01:15:47,679
understand

2023
01:15:51,350 --> 01:15:48,560
this

2024
01:15:54,470 --> 01:15:51,360
object that we that we found that came

2025
01:15:57,030 --> 01:15:54,480
from an e.t the energy device or the

2026
01:15:58,709 --> 01:15:57,040
communications device or the the

2027
01:16:00,630 --> 01:15:58,719
propulsion system

2028
01:16:03,270 --> 01:16:00,640
um

2029
01:16:05,350 --> 01:16:03,280
and and and we do that and and and dr

2030
01:16:08,390 --> 01:16:05,360
putoff has has publicly talked about

2031
01:16:11,270 --> 01:16:08,400
doing that as as other scientists have

2032
01:16:12,149 --> 01:16:11,280
that okay as a as we understand science

2033
01:16:15,189 --> 01:16:12,159
more

2034
01:16:17,270 --> 01:16:15,199
but the problem there is

2035
01:16:18,390 --> 01:16:17,280
this technology that we're looking at

2036
01:16:21,030 --> 01:16:18,400
came from

2037
01:16:22,310 --> 01:16:21,040
an entirely different civilization

2038
01:16:23,750 --> 01:16:22,320
in a different

2039
01:16:26,310 --> 01:16:23,760
different uh

2040
01:16:28,790 --> 01:16:26,320
maybe obviously different solar system

2041
01:16:31,590 --> 01:16:28,800
maybe even a different galaxy although

2042
01:16:34,310 --> 01:16:31,600
i think the consensus among dr puthoff

2043
01:16:35,430 --> 01:16:34,320
and most other scientists is it would be

2044
01:16:38,310 --> 01:16:35,440
from our

2045
01:16:39,510 --> 01:16:38,320
galaxy we we just can't believe

2046
01:16:41,189 --> 01:16:39,520
that

2047
01:16:44,470 --> 01:16:41,199
somebody could travel

2048
01:16:47,030 --> 01:16:44,480
uh from from uh you know a billion light

2049
01:16:49,189 --> 01:16:47,040
years away or 100 million or something

2050
01:16:53,590 --> 01:16:49,199
to our planet so we would we would think

2051
01:16:54,950 --> 01:16:53,600
that most of of these were in our our

2052
01:16:56,070 --> 01:16:54,960
galaxy

2053
01:17:00,070 --> 01:16:56,080
and

2054
01:17:02,870 --> 01:17:00,080
they're made with a different technology

2055
01:17:06,550 --> 01:17:02,880
different materials

2056
01:17:09,030 --> 01:17:06,560
so we may never understand

2057
01:17:10,550 --> 01:17:09,040
alien technology yeah we might

2058
01:17:12,630 --> 01:17:10,560
understand some

2059
01:17:15,110 --> 01:17:12,640
we might and as dr puthoff puts it we

2060
01:17:16,790 --> 01:17:15,120
might understand the concept this is a

2061
01:17:19,030 --> 01:17:16,800
propulsion system

2062
01:17:21,030 --> 01:17:19,040
this works by something

2063
01:17:23,750 --> 01:17:21,040
we just have to figure out what

2064
01:17:26,149 --> 01:17:23,760
and something could be some

2065
01:17:27,830 --> 01:17:26,159
an item or a

2066
01:17:29,750 --> 01:17:27,840
element that we don't have here on this

2067
01:17:31,430 --> 01:17:29,760
planet that they have in some other

2068
01:17:33,430 --> 01:17:31,440
planet

2069
01:17:37,110 --> 01:17:33,440
and then there's a

2070
01:17:38,870 --> 01:17:37,120
there's a also a theory that was uh

2071
01:17:40,950 --> 01:17:38,880
put out some years ago stan friedman

2072
01:17:43,350 --> 01:17:40,960
talked about this in his book

2073
01:17:45,510 --> 01:17:43,360
uh if in fact something came from

2074
01:17:48,310 --> 01:17:45,520
another galaxy

2075
01:17:50,550 --> 01:17:48,320
a different type of galaxy than ours

2076
01:17:52,390 --> 01:17:50,560
the physics on that galaxy could be

2077
01:17:54,550 --> 01:17:52,400
entirely different

2078
01:17:56,790 --> 01:17:54,560
than the physics here

2079
01:17:59,430 --> 01:17:56,800
now i don't personally believe that but

2080
01:18:01,110 --> 01:17:59,440
because it's just all one one one

2081
01:18:01,830 --> 01:18:01,120
universe i mean goes i'm not a scientist

2082
01:18:03,830 --> 01:18:01,840
though

2083
01:18:06,149 --> 01:18:03,840
but but i understand what two and two is

2084
01:18:08,630 --> 01:18:06,159
for and you know i can understand

2085
01:18:12,310 --> 01:18:08,640
mathematics might be the same but

2086
01:18:15,110 --> 01:18:12,320
there it could be some difference but um

2087
01:18:15,990 --> 01:18:15,120
i think that we have to really advance

2088
01:18:17,430 --> 01:18:16,000
our

2089
01:18:19,910 --> 01:18:17,440
knowledge

2090
01:18:21,189 --> 01:18:19,920
of the of of of the universe before we

2091
01:18:22,630 --> 01:18:21,199
could ever

2092
01:18:24,310 --> 01:18:22,640
try to understand some of the et

2093
01:18:25,430 --> 01:18:24,320
technology

2094
01:18:26,390 --> 01:18:25,440
yeah

2095
01:18:27,510 --> 01:18:26,400
um

2096
01:18:28,870 --> 01:18:27,520
rick

2097
01:18:30,950 --> 01:18:28,880
there i know there's like there's so

2098
01:18:32,709 --> 01:18:30,960
much to get to uh nathan and i are

2099
01:18:34,790 --> 01:18:32,719
struggling thinking about but but we can

2100
01:18:36,550 --> 01:18:34,800
we're not going to we're gonna wrap up

2101
01:18:38,630 --> 01:18:36,560
so we just have a couple more questions

2102
01:18:41,590 --> 01:18:38,640
if that's okay sure

2103
01:18:44,630 --> 01:18:41,600
what were the emotions that you

2104
01:18:47,270 --> 01:18:44,640
uh felt and i know that you don't

2105
01:18:49,510 --> 01:18:47,280
uh your job is basically to

2106
01:18:52,149 --> 01:18:49,520
look at an event and not apply emotion

2107
01:18:53,430 --> 01:18:52,159
to it to be dispassionate to be

2108
01:18:55,189 --> 01:18:53,440
analytical

2109
01:18:57,590 --> 01:18:55,199
to see what's going on and then make an

2110
01:18:59,510 --> 01:18:57,600
assessment based on what you've seen and

2111
01:19:02,790 --> 01:18:59,520
with that with all that happened

2112
01:19:03,830 --> 01:19:02,800
regarding tic tac with dave fravor

2113
01:19:06,870 --> 01:19:03,840
alex

2114
01:19:10,550 --> 01:19:06,880
chad underwood uh the guys and gals that

2115
01:19:12,390 --> 01:19:10,560
were on the uh uss princeton uh the uh

2116
01:19:13,270 --> 01:19:12,400
aegis radar cruiser

2117
01:19:15,430 --> 01:19:13,280
um

2118
01:19:17,510 --> 01:19:15,440
the e2 hawkeye folks what was your

2119
01:19:19,430 --> 01:19:17,520
assessment of of

2120
01:19:21,350 --> 01:19:19,440
that how did you process that

2121
01:19:22,870 --> 01:19:21,360
information and what did you think about

2122
01:19:25,750 --> 01:19:22,880
it

2123
01:19:28,310 --> 01:19:25,760
i interviewed all right i sat and talked

2124
01:19:29,590 --> 01:19:28,320
with an interview my i sat and i spoke

2125
01:19:32,390 --> 01:19:29,600
with a lot of them

2126
01:19:35,510 --> 01:19:32,400
at uh at different locations something

2127
01:19:37,510 --> 01:19:35,520
ufo mentioned in other places uh we were

2128
01:19:40,310 --> 01:19:37,520
brought together in california

2129
01:19:42,310 --> 01:19:40,320
uh about a year and a half ago and and

2130
01:19:45,910 --> 01:19:42,320
and it was

2131
01:19:47,510 --> 01:19:45,920
discussion

2132
01:19:49,350 --> 01:19:47,520
um

2133
01:19:51,189 --> 01:19:49,360
they were every single person that

2134
01:19:54,070 --> 01:19:51,199
witnessed the tic-tac

2135
01:19:55,270 --> 01:19:54,080
the uss nimitz or the the uh

2136
01:19:58,149 --> 01:19:55,280
the um

2137
01:19:59,030 --> 01:19:58,159
the roosevelt case the pilots

2138
01:20:00,950 --> 01:19:59,040
um

2139
01:20:04,790 --> 01:20:00,960
they were all very passionate

2140
01:20:07,030 --> 01:20:04,800
i i believe everything they said

2141
01:20:09,430 --> 01:20:07,040
uh they spoke from the heart

2142
01:20:12,149 --> 01:20:09,440
uh they didn't exaggerate

2143
01:20:14,070 --> 01:20:12,159
you know amazing thing about pilots i

2144
01:20:14,950 --> 01:20:14,080
mean and i really admire pilots of

2145
01:20:17,590 --> 01:20:14,960
course

2146
01:20:20,310 --> 01:20:17,600
t.j.u is that they

2147
01:20:21,270 --> 01:20:20,320
they are great observers

2148
01:20:23,910 --> 01:20:21,280
and

2149
01:20:25,750 --> 01:20:23,920
they'll tell you what they see

2150
01:20:28,149 --> 01:20:25,760
and that's it

2151
01:20:29,590 --> 01:20:28,159
and um

2152
01:20:31,189 --> 01:20:29,600
and and they

2153
01:20:35,110 --> 01:20:31,199
they follow

2154
01:20:38,149 --> 01:20:35,120
they have to fly in his plane that you

2155
01:20:39,750 --> 01:20:38,159
know one small mistake and i mean and i

2156
01:20:40,870 --> 01:20:39,760
saw it from the ground on this combat

2157
01:20:42,870 --> 01:20:40,880
controller

2158
01:20:45,189 --> 01:20:42,880
you know i tell a pilot you know you got

2159
01:20:46,950 --> 01:20:45,199
a hole in this one holding pattern and

2160
01:20:48,070 --> 01:20:46,960
it might be a really small holding

2161
01:20:50,950 --> 01:20:48,080
pattern but

2162
01:20:53,669 --> 01:20:50,960
boy this f4 pilot's doing it or this you

2163
01:20:55,910 --> 01:20:53,679
know whatever plane he's flying

2164
01:20:57,910 --> 01:20:55,920
uh and they're doing exactly what i'm

2165
01:20:59,030 --> 01:20:57,920
telling them to do because there's six

2166
01:21:02,470 --> 01:20:59,040
other

2167
01:21:05,110 --> 01:21:02,480
but but but i admire everything admire

2168
01:21:06,950 --> 01:21:05,120
the the observation abilities of pilots

2169
01:21:09,189 --> 01:21:06,960
and i didn't hear anything from any of

2170
01:21:10,390 --> 01:21:09,199
these uh either the air crew or the

2171
01:21:11,350 --> 01:21:10,400
ground crew

2172
01:21:17,990 --> 01:21:11,360
uh

2173
01:21:19,510 --> 01:21:18,000
what was that called yeah

2174
01:21:20,870 --> 01:21:19,520
e2 hawkeye

2175
01:21:23,750 --> 01:21:20,880
um

2176
01:21:26,229 --> 01:21:23,760
i didn't see any i didn't uh

2177
01:21:29,270 --> 01:21:26,239
see anything that i i thought was out of

2178
01:21:31,910 --> 01:21:29,280
the ordinary i believed i believe them

2179
01:21:33,830 --> 01:21:31,920
the the the pain the pilot uh the male

2180
01:21:37,030 --> 01:21:33,840
and female pilot the co-pilot were

2181
01:21:39,430 --> 01:21:37,040
flying against the tic tac

2182
01:21:40,550 --> 01:21:39,440
perfect observation articulate and

2183
01:21:41,990 --> 01:21:40,560
everything

2184
01:21:44,550 --> 01:21:42,000
talking about the speed that they were

2185
01:21:47,350 --> 01:21:44,560
flying the different headings that they

2186
01:21:49,189 --> 01:21:47,360
were flying and everything i mean

2187
01:21:52,390 --> 01:21:49,199
i don't find anything

2188
01:21:54,709 --> 01:21:52,400
out of the ordinary with anyone that

2189
01:21:56,709 --> 01:21:54,719
witnessed uh these things

2190
01:21:58,870 --> 01:21:56,719
how i think what i was really getting at

2191
01:22:01,270 --> 01:21:58,880
is how how did you feel about what that

2192
01:22:03,830 --> 01:22:01,280
did that craft represent a different

2193
01:22:05,590 --> 01:22:03,840
level of uh some different performance

2194
01:22:07,430 --> 01:22:05,600
characteristics because you probably

2195
01:22:11,030 --> 01:22:07,440
hadn't heard a lot of interactions where

2196
01:22:13,189 --> 01:22:11,040
you have you now have an fa18 that's in

2197
01:22:16,229 --> 01:22:13,199
a in an orbit in a little bit of a

2198
01:22:18,790 --> 01:22:16,239
mexican standoff with a tic-tac after he

2199
01:22:20,070 --> 01:22:18,800
pointed his nose at that object on the

2200
01:22:22,149 --> 01:22:20,080
ground uh

2201
01:22:24,070 --> 01:22:22,159
that was hovering above the ocean so i

2202
01:22:25,990 --> 01:22:24,080
was wondering if that represented a

2203
01:22:27,990 --> 01:22:26,000
little bit of a shift in the

2204
01:22:30,149 --> 01:22:28,000
the paradigm in our interactions with

2205
01:22:32,149 --> 01:22:30,159
these uh these craft

2206
01:22:33,270 --> 01:22:32,159
oh yeah their description of what they

2207
01:22:37,030 --> 01:22:33,280
observed

2208
01:22:40,629 --> 01:22:37,040
uh was something uh was a craft that i i

2209
01:22:42,790 --> 01:22:40,639
had not uh seen or heard uh that were

2210
01:22:44,149 --> 01:22:42,800
was clearly probably uh based on my

2211
01:22:47,189 --> 01:22:44,159
knowledge in my

2212
01:22:50,229 --> 01:22:47,199
uh my history uh uh that wasn't one of

2213
01:22:52,550 --> 01:22:50,239
ours it was definitely either either

2214
01:22:55,110 --> 01:22:52,560
something that russians or chinese had

2215
01:22:58,229 --> 01:22:55,120
that you know they developed exotic

2216
01:22:59,669 --> 01:22:58,239
technology or it was something from from

2217
01:23:02,229 --> 01:22:59,679
out of this world

2218
01:23:05,030 --> 01:23:02,239
but but i did have an occasion if i

2219
01:23:07,990 --> 01:23:05,040
could just interject real quick please

2220
01:23:10,310 --> 01:23:08,000
in the area 51 there was a ufo incident

2221
01:23:14,950 --> 01:23:10,320
that was flying the craft was flying

2222
01:23:16,950 --> 01:23:14,960
inside another's test and training range

2223
01:23:19,030 --> 01:23:16,960
we had just

2224
01:23:22,070 --> 01:23:19,040
the f-16s were brand new back in the

2225
01:23:24,149 --> 01:23:22,080
early 80s and we just got two new ones

2226
01:23:27,030 --> 01:23:24,159
on alert at nellis

2227
01:23:27,990 --> 01:23:27,040
they flew out after this object now we

2228
01:23:29,990 --> 01:23:28,000
know

2229
01:23:32,310 --> 01:23:30,000
ground controllers knew

2230
01:23:35,110 --> 01:23:32,320
it wasn't one of ours there was nothing

2231
01:23:36,390 --> 01:23:35,120
supposed to be flying and these two f-16

2232
01:23:39,350 --> 01:23:36,400
pilots

2233
01:23:43,189 --> 01:23:39,360
uh and i was happen to be near a radio

2234
01:23:46,790 --> 01:23:43,199
uh listening to they were on a the 230 i

2235
01:23:48,629 --> 01:23:46,800
remember the frequency 234.150 bam and

2236
01:23:50,629 --> 01:23:48,639
and they were

2237
01:23:51,990 --> 01:23:50,639
they were talking

2238
01:23:53,189 --> 01:23:52,000
back and forth

2239
01:23:55,189 --> 01:23:53,199
and and

2240
01:23:56,950 --> 01:23:55,199
listening and seeing what they were

2241
01:23:59,270 --> 01:23:56,960
trying to chase

2242
01:24:01,030 --> 01:23:59,280
and they said this is exotic we can't we

2243
01:24:02,950 --> 01:24:01,040
can't keep up with this and these are

2244
01:24:03,830 --> 01:24:02,960
brand new f-16s

2245
01:24:05,189 --> 01:24:03,840
so

2246
01:24:06,470 --> 01:24:05,199
i did have an occasion to witness

2247
01:24:08,229 --> 01:24:06,480
something like that

2248
01:24:10,390 --> 01:24:08,239
that that is an awesome awesome

2249
01:24:12,510 --> 01:24:10,400
narrative nick thank you uh rick thank

2250
01:24:15,350 --> 01:24:12,520
you for telling that and this this uh

2251
01:24:17,590 --> 01:24:15,360
f-16 still is an amazing aircraft and

2252
01:24:19,910 --> 01:24:17,600
we're still updating him and flying him

2253
01:24:22,229 --> 01:24:19,920
i got to hear uh terry verts the

2254
01:24:24,470 --> 01:24:22,239
astronaut who has this podcast where

2255
01:24:26,629 --> 01:24:24,480
he's interviewing his friend who's an f

2256
01:24:28,709 --> 01:24:26,639
current f-35 pilot and they're going

2257
01:24:32,149 --> 01:24:28,719
over the differences and it's amazing

2258
01:24:36,870 --> 01:24:32,159
but the f-16 remains uh an absolutely

2259
01:24:40,629 --> 01:24:36,880
amazing uh aircraft still today so

2260
01:24:43,510 --> 01:24:40,639
um all right so um i think we we really

2261
01:24:46,390 --> 01:24:43,520
kind of want to wrap it up now uh rick i

2262
01:24:47,990 --> 01:24:46,400
guess we would ask you um

2263
01:24:50,310 --> 01:24:48,000
what disclosure

2264
01:24:52,870 --> 01:24:50,320
what level of disclosure do you think

2265
01:24:54,550 --> 01:24:52,880
the american people should get

2266
01:24:57,910 --> 01:24:54,560
uh how much do you think they should

2267
01:25:00,709 --> 01:24:57,920
know um and why do you why do you feel

2268
01:25:02,950 --> 01:25:00,719
that way whatever that level is

2269
01:25:03,830 --> 01:25:02,960
i think they should they should get the

2270
01:25:06,149 --> 01:25:03,840
uh

2271
01:25:07,830 --> 01:25:06,159
the basics i i don't think there's

2272
01:25:09,189 --> 01:25:07,840
there's a lot of information out there

2273
01:25:11,189 --> 01:25:09,199
that they should they they don't want to

2274
01:25:14,070 --> 01:25:11,199
know uh they they probably shouldn't

2275
01:25:16,070 --> 01:25:14,080
know uh highly technical stuff

2276
01:25:18,470 --> 01:25:16,080
technology that we developed

2277
01:25:19,709 --> 01:25:18,480
from the et's uh propulsion

2278
01:25:22,790 --> 01:25:19,719
and uh

2279
01:25:25,030 --> 01:25:22,800
aerodynamics uh cloaking uh things like

2280
01:25:27,030 --> 01:25:25,040
that no we we're not gonna disclose that

2281
01:25:28,709 --> 01:25:27,040
stuff because it's going to get out to

2282
01:25:30,310 --> 01:25:28,719
the our enemies

2283
01:25:32,390 --> 01:25:30,320
i think they they should know the

2284
01:25:33,830 --> 01:25:32,400
history i have no

2285
01:25:37,750 --> 01:25:33,840
problems with them knowing the history

2286
01:25:39,350 --> 01:25:37,760
from 1947 on and and and if there are if

2287
01:25:41,270 --> 01:25:39,360
the government has information about

2288
01:25:42,870 --> 01:25:41,280
something that happened before that

2289
01:25:44,709 --> 01:25:42,880
that i don't know about

2290
01:25:46,870 --> 01:25:44,719
i think they should disclose it that the

2291
01:25:50,790 --> 01:25:46,880
basic historical facts about our

2292
01:25:52,229 --> 01:25:50,800
contacts with ufos from 1947 on i

2293
01:25:53,510 --> 01:25:52,239
believe they should know they have the

2294
01:25:55,750 --> 01:25:53,520
right to know

2295
01:25:59,430 --> 01:25:55,760
and i think there was a program years

2296
01:26:00,870 --> 01:25:59,440
ago that wanted to do that and i'd know

2297
01:26:02,790 --> 01:26:00,880
a people that were involved in that

2298
01:26:04,870 --> 01:26:02,800
thing that program

2299
01:26:06,070 --> 01:26:04,880
and they tried to get the public

2300
01:26:07,030 --> 01:26:06,080
conditioned

2301
01:26:13,830 --> 01:26:07,040
uh

2302
01:26:16,149 --> 01:26:13,840
1951 that was supposedly

2303
01:26:18,070 --> 01:26:16,159
controlled by an air force captain who

2304
01:26:20,870 --> 01:26:18,080
had actually wrote the script to that

2305
01:26:23,510 --> 01:26:20,880
and so i mean all these these different

2306
01:26:24,870 --> 01:26:23,520
programs over the years

2307
01:26:28,229 --> 01:26:24,880
i think we were trying to condition the

2308
01:26:33,110 --> 01:26:30,709
somehow it got screwed up i don't know

2309
01:26:34,629 --> 01:26:33,120
if it was by whoever's controlling this

2310
01:26:37,189 --> 01:26:34,639
that i don't know at all

2311
01:26:39,910 --> 01:26:37,199
or by our government i don't know but we

2312
01:26:41,990 --> 01:26:39,920
we should have a disclosure and i think

2313
01:26:43,510 --> 01:26:42,000
skinwalker ranch

2314
01:26:45,990 --> 01:26:43,520
uh

2315
01:26:47,189 --> 01:26:46,000
walker the

2316
01:26:50,470 --> 01:26:47,199
pentagon

2317
01:26:54,310 --> 01:26:50,480
i think that's somewhat of a uh

2318
01:26:56,149 --> 01:26:54,320
attempt to disclose some of it

2319
01:26:59,189 --> 01:26:56,159
um

2320
01:27:01,590 --> 01:26:59,199
the construct that you believe i i hate

2321
01:27:04,709 --> 01:27:01,600
to bring this up again and i i hate to

2322
01:27:07,189 --> 01:27:04,719
close with this but people are

2323
01:27:11,189 --> 01:27:07,199
interested to know is that how we would

2324
01:27:13,910 --> 01:27:11,199
obscure this and this mj 12 business

2325
01:27:15,669 --> 01:27:13,920
we spoke about earlier about how do you

2326
01:27:18,229 --> 01:27:15,679
how do you get people who have a need to

2327
01:27:20,629 --> 01:27:18,239
know not to know it do you know what

2328
01:27:21,590 --> 01:27:20,639
kind of a construct there was to be able

2329
01:27:23,830 --> 01:27:21,600
to

2330
01:27:27,110 --> 01:27:23,840
obfuscate this information or at least

2331
01:27:30,310 --> 01:27:27,120
contain it within a relatively small

2332
01:27:35,990 --> 01:27:32,950
no i i wish i knew

2333
01:27:37,030 --> 01:27:36,000
i you know that that question is is one

2334
01:27:39,590 --> 01:27:37,040
for

2335
01:27:42,950 --> 01:27:39,600
somebody well above my pay graze upgrade

2336
01:27:44,390 --> 01:27:42,960
but um i just you know i i just don't i

2337
01:27:47,030 --> 01:27:44,400
don't know um

2338
01:27:49,110 --> 01:27:47,040
mj-12 documents that's we could we could

2339
01:27:51,270 --> 01:27:49,120
do a whole program on that that's okay

2340
01:27:53,189 --> 01:27:51,280
that's okay i i mean i i really

2341
01:27:55,110 --> 01:27:53,199
appreciate your candor i just i had to

2342
01:27:57,189 --> 01:27:55,120
ask i had to get that one in there rick

2343
01:27:58,550 --> 01:27:57,199
you know

2344
01:28:01,110 --> 01:27:58,560
understand what

2345
01:28:02,870 --> 01:28:01,120
uh yeah rick do you uh do you do you

2346
01:28:04,310 --> 01:28:02,880
agree with the sort of sentiment

2347
01:28:08,229 --> 01:28:04,320
expressed by

2348
01:28:11,030 --> 01:28:08,239
reagan at the at the un convention um

2349
01:28:12,310 --> 01:28:11,040
you know that that this is a topic

2350
01:28:14,629 --> 01:28:12,320
that would really kind of bring the

2351
01:28:15,910 --> 01:28:14,639
world together you know in fact louis

2352
01:28:18,310 --> 01:28:15,920
lozando

2353
01:28:20,629 --> 01:28:18,320
i think just yesterday in an interview

2354
01:28:23,750 --> 01:28:20,639
you know was really trying to call for

2355
01:28:26,709 --> 01:28:23,760
a global effort to understand this and

2356
01:28:28,310 --> 01:28:26,719
to work together on this topic

2357
01:28:30,390 --> 01:28:28,320
do you share that sentiment do you think

2358
01:28:33,750 --> 01:28:30,400
that do you show that optimism this

2359
01:28:35,830 --> 01:28:33,760
would be a unifying factor for the world

2360
01:28:38,149 --> 01:28:35,840
yes yes i agree with

2361
01:28:42,070 --> 01:28:38,159
with that statement that lou made i

2362
01:28:44,229 --> 01:28:42,080
i i agree and we should be a personal a

2363
01:28:45,590 --> 01:28:44,239
topic that brought through the united

2364
01:28:48,629 --> 01:28:45,600
nations

2365
01:28:49,990 --> 01:28:48,639
um where each country can come forth and

2366
01:28:51,910 --> 01:28:50,000
and um

2367
01:28:53,189 --> 01:28:51,920
spill the beans so to speak

2368
01:28:54,830 --> 01:28:53,199
i don't know that that's ever gonna

2369
01:28:58,070 --> 01:28:54,840
happen because there's

2370
01:28:59,669 --> 01:28:58,080
um there's so much information that's

2371
01:29:01,030 --> 01:28:59,679
it's compartmented

2372
01:29:02,709 --> 01:29:01,040
from our government that we're not going

2373
01:29:04,870 --> 01:29:02,719
to disclose and there's i know a lot

2374
01:29:06,950 --> 01:29:04,880
from the russians i mean we can do it

2375
01:29:09,110 --> 01:29:06,960
out entire show on that what the

2376
01:29:10,870 --> 01:29:09,120
russians knew what the soviets knew with

2377
01:29:13,189 --> 01:29:10,880
chinese news so i don't think that's

2378
01:29:16,870 --> 01:29:13,199
going to happen i wish

2379
01:29:18,870 --> 01:29:16,880
i wish i wish it would uh we which could

2380
01:29:20,709 --> 01:29:18,880
have a full disclosure

2381
01:29:22,550 --> 01:29:20,719
by uh

2382
01:29:23,830 --> 01:29:22,560
the united nations

2383
01:29:25,830 --> 01:29:23,840
anything that would bring the world

2384
01:29:27,669 --> 01:29:25,840
together um

2385
01:29:29,350 --> 01:29:27,679
rick i i really can't thank you enough

2386
01:29:32,310 --> 01:29:29,360
for coming here and sharing some time

2387
01:29:34,550 --> 01:29:32,320
with us and having some fun with us

2388
01:29:37,110 --> 01:29:34,560
uh laughing with us a little bit yeah

2389
01:29:39,910 --> 01:29:37,120
and and talking to us it uh i really

2390
01:29:42,390 --> 01:29:39,920
mean this as not only a podcast host but

2391
01:29:45,110 --> 01:29:42,400
firm and fellow air force brother it was

2392
01:29:46,790 --> 01:29:45,120
an absolute honor to have you here sir

2393
01:29:48,229 --> 01:29:46,800
um thank you very much i really

2394
01:29:50,709 --> 01:29:48,239
appreciate it well thank you for your

2395
01:29:53,030 --> 01:29:50,719
service too dj and it's a pleasure to

2396
01:29:56,470 --> 01:29:53,040
know you nathan likewise rick hope to

2397
01:29:58,950 --> 01:29:56,480
have uh have you on again soon sometime

2398
01:29:59,990 --> 01:29:58,960
rick dodi ladies and gentlemen thank you

2399
01:30:00,950 --> 01:30:00,000
so much

2400
01:30:02,790 --> 01:30:00,960
thank you